Pony Bottles on NJ Charters?

[Tanked]

Sean, note that some topics are simply never "put to rest" on ScubaBoard.

That would make a great motto for Scubaboard.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

In order to put this too rest I will take a shot at it. The rule is in place because a lot like many rules it is there to serve the least common denominator. I have no doubt that a properly trained team practicing good buddy skills can execute a dive off NJ without redundant air. Blame the training organizations, instructors, society whoever you want but that is not the majority of customers we get. Combine poor situational awareness with hunting, low vis, and the other factors facing NJ divers and buddy separation becomes a real issue. Since we can't do checkout dives it is one way for us to hopefully help to manage risk. Dive off a boat regularly and let the captain get comfortable with you and I am sure he will allow you to execute dives in any manner you want as long as you are safe.

Nice to see someone can finally post a neutral non-sarcastic articulate defense of the jersey practice. Now on to discussing ways to do away with the need :shocked2:

 

[gsk3]

That would make a great motto for Scubaboard.

"ScubaBoard - where no bad idea ever dies."*

As to my opinion on the actual topic under discussion, I think boats can require whatever they want. I think that if you dive repeatedly with the same operation and they see your level of training and safety-consciousness, they are unlikely to refuse just about any reasonable request. And I think that given that neither GUE nor UTD has anything against diving doubles (in fact, GUE in particular rather encourages it from what I've seen), complying with the boat's rules is relatively simple.

In this case, having known and heard of quite a few deaths off Jersey, I am entirely sympathetic to the boats' point of view. Once they get to know you, they are much more laissez-faire, but until they, I think it's fair to allow them do mandate something which for most people increases safety, given typical levels of training.

But for people with proper training, team awareness, and lighting, buddy separation is *not* inevitable. Therefore, those who can demonstrate the necessary attitude, training, and equipment should be allowed to dive with singles and no pony/stage. It's just that I'm quite sure most boats around here currently allow this...after they get to know you.


*Note this has nothing to do with my opinion of the current thread, just thought it was a good motto.

 

[RJP]

Nice to see someone can finally post a neutral non-sarcastic articulate defense of the jersey practice. Now on to discussing ways to do away with the need :shocked2:

Note that the question was in fact "asked and answered" more than 100 posts earlier.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Note that the question was "asked and answered" more than 100 posts earlier.

I admit i didn't read back; glad to see the answer revisited.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

"ScubaBoard - where no bad idea ever dies."

As to my opinion on the actual topic under discussion, I think boats can require whatever they want. I think that if you dive repeatedly with the same operation and they see your level of training and safety-consciousness, they are unlikely to refuse just about any reasonable request. And I think that given that neither GUE nor UTD has anything against diving doubles (in fact, GUE in particular rather encourages it from what I've seen), complying with the boat's rules is relatively simple.

In this case, having known and heard of quite a few deaths off Jersey, I am entirely sympathetic to the boats' point of view. Once they get to know you, they are much more laissez-faire, but until they, I think it's fair to allow them do mandate something which for most people increases safety, given typical levels of training.

But for people with proper training, team awareness, and lighting, buddy separation is *not* inevitable. Therefore, those who can demonstrate the necessary attitude, training, and equipment should be allowed to dive with singles and no pony/stage. It's just that I'm quite sure most boats around here currently allow this...after they get to know you.

Never quite understood why doubles were acceptable as "redundancy." In independent doubles (no isolation manifold) you only have redundancy on the first dive, and if you have isolated doubles then redundancy just = more gas than you will probably need...on your first dive. At least isolated doubles can allow you to address a problem on one post or the other, but the dive ops dont seem to care much if you are diving independent doubles or not.

 

[RJP]

Never quite understood why doubles were acceptable as "redundancy."

Really?

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Really?

did you bother to read my entire post?

 

[Tanked]

Never quite understood why doubles were acceptable as "redundancy."

What do you consider redundancy?

 

[RJP]

did you bother to read my entire post?

Yup...

Did you?