Problem with Paddle Fins

[Ponyfeathers]

Hey everyone,

i wanted to know if anyone had the same problem i had with my paddle fins. When i told my LDS about it, the guy said he had never heard anyone say this before, but he got me to upgrade to Split fins.

I purchased Scubapro Kinetix Fins for my first set (http://www.oceansafari.com/products/KinetixFin_BLU.jpg) . They were the 'middle' quality you could say. There were cheaper ones and there were more expensive ones, and the LDS said these were the best buy and they had just gone on closeout.

Anyways, i noticed this in the pool and especially on my first dive. If i wanted to move forward in the water i would try to move my legs forward to kick, but (its kind of hard to describe) i couldn't. There was too much resistance i guess or something. It took a lot of effort to move anywhere because i had to use much shorter kicks and ended up with my legs behind me, whereas everyone else could still be on the surface with their BCs inflated and swim from point A to point B in a mostly upright position.

If i was swimming horizontally in the water no matter how i tried to kick it was near impossible to get my legs to go under my body line. If i was at the surface this made it very hard to not kick my legs out of the water.

LDS let me trade the fins in for Scubapros Twin Jet High Tech Split fins ( https://www.scuba.com/images/fins/Scubapro-Twin-Jet-Adjustable-Fins.jpg) I will be trying them out on Sunday for our second set of dives. I notice right off the bat that they are not as long, they are more flexible, and there are more holes in the design that would let water pass through and i guess lower the resistance.

Has anyone else had that problem? At first i thought maybe it was a user error, but ive been riding horses for almost 10 years so i use my legs all the time and have decent muscles there. Anyways, thanks in advance to any replies

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

I suspect the problem is technique if you have not used fins very much before now. When flutter kicking, the power comes from your hips, your knees stay fairly straight, and you allow some movement at the ankles. If it is a technique problem, changing fins will probably not solve the problem you are having. Have your instructor watch you while you swim, and give you feedback.

Some people do have problems with traditional paddle fins due to leg/hip strength issues, and spilts may help with that. Paddle fins do take more "horsepower" than splits. The tradeoff (many feel) is that splits offer less thrust (but I've neve tried splits can't really comment on that... I couldn't see spending good $$ for fins that were "broken" ).

My fins? Since the 70's, either Rocket Fins or Scubapro Jets...

Good luck and best wishes.

Good luck.

 

[The Kraken]

It sounds very much to me as if you're "bicycling" . . . trying to fin in the same manner that you would pedal a bicycle.

Basically speaking, your knees should not descend below a straight line running through the length of your body if you were horizontal in the water.

Someone on the board has an avatar nicely exhibiting how one should fin.

the K

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As an instructor I have addressed the problem in some students. As others have said, it's a technique issue. I'm sure they are just trying to make [-]a buck [/-]you happy, but rather than sell you a more expensive set of fins, your LDS should've asked your instructor to show you how to use the ones you had properly.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Kraken]

Have a look at Diver0001's avatar . . . a picture is worth a thousand words.

the K

 

[don Francisco]

It's a shame that so many people "solve" technique problems by changing equipment. While split fins have some benefits, one of which is that they're more forgiving of poor technique, it shouldn't have been necessary to spend money.

Using blade fins effectively depends on maintaining the proper angle of the fin in the water. If it points down it will thrust upwards causing the problem you had. The fin should extend horizontally (or in line with your body) so that the up and down forces will be balanced and the thrust will be forward. You control the angle mainly by opening the angle of your ankle, as if standing on your toes, and bending your knees slightly.

Once the correct fin position is established, finning is done from the hip while the legs and ankles are kept at the correct bends. It takes abit of practice, but effective finning is just another of those skills that instructors should teach. Changing equipment is just a workaround for poor skill developement.

 

[elan]

Like others have pointed out it's not the problem with the fins. It's a problem with the technique. I went through this myself - after 7th dive I have realized that I had no clue about how to fin properly and started to learn proper techniques and trim management. Most of the times you fins have no business in maintaining you pitch. Forget about the fins. Move your head back slowly straighten your legs and your legs will get down. The most important part I have figured out is having your body relaxed. The more it is relaxed the easier and more effective the techniques will be. And at the end I have found that paddle fins give me more control over my position in the water. I can manage them easier than splits and my movements are sharper , more precise, when I use them.
All I did to solve the problem with fining was watching how experienced guys do it, then practice practice and practice, then I talked to them, watched videos and was again practicing.

 

[Ponyfeathers]

Thanks everyone!

If it points down it will thrust upwards causing the problem you had.

I think this is the problem. I notice they have a very steep angle, making my giant strides tricky and a little scary at the pool. I'd be at the edge of the pool, they would line where my toes were up to the very edge of the cement, and they say don't let the tips of the fins in the water, but as much as i tried to keep the tips out they were always a good inch or two under. They would tell me then to just take a big step forward and make sure the fin is out of the water, but since the tips were already in the water i figured i was gonna end up face first in the water, but thankfully that never happened.

I would hope it wasn't technique since the instructor never said anything when watching in the pool, but he is the LDS guy as well, so i wouldn't put it past him (why im switching LDSs) to not say "do it like this" instead of "buy this instead". He demonstrated bicycling, and that was not what i was doing. He even had us purposefully bicycle so we knew what not to do.

I'll find out Sunday whether the change in fin has helped. I think it was the length and agngle of the fins. The splits are much much shorter. The blade fins wouldn't even fit in my gear bag, but the splits do with room to spare.

thanks again everyone!

 

[spectrum]

Has anyone else had that problem? At first i thought maybe it was a user error, but I've been riding horses for almost 10 years so I use my legs all the time and have decent muscles there. Anyways, thanks in advance to any replies

Not all activities use the same muscles so it may not be a valid analogy. I don't know physiology well enough to say.

I agree that is sounds like technique and conditioning. My suggestion is to spend some time skin-diving to put this to bed fast without burning bottom time on it. In surface swimming you can take your time swimming in your skin-diving gear. Use nice full leg kicks with a little ankle action and limited knee movement to smooth things out. Start out with a kick length and pace that are comfortable, don't force anything. As you gain the coordination, technique and stamina your pace will rise. Likewise move to broader power kicks. Eventually you will fly like a torpedo.

Another thought that came to me in reading your post was excessive foot buoyancy. If the fins are really light (neutral/positive buoyancy) and your boots are thick neoprene you may be burdening your legs just driving them down with each kick. A drysuit diver with excess air in the legs gets this sensation. The same conditioning described above will let you overcome this if it's the case and in the log run you will be a much stronger diver for it.

More thoughts here.

Pete

 

[don Francisco]

I think this is the problem. I notice they have a very steep [down] angle, making my giant strides tricky and a little scary at the pool.

I think it might help if you drew yourself a stick figure of yourself with fins. Most fins have a built in downwards angle, so the blade extends below the line of your foot. They do this because most of us aren't ballerinas who can point our toes directly downwards.

Here's where the stick figure drawing comes in. Turn the figure horizontal - voila! - What was downwards when you were standing up became backwards or even upwards when you're horizontal. The built in angle help to correctly set the blade angle, without hyper-extending your ankle or foot.

As far as dragging the fin on giant strides goes, it can be a pain, but as long as you lift the striding foot clear, it's perfectly fine to let the trailing fin drag a bit. Note, in many situations you'll be striding from high enough that it won't matter either way.

If you haven't yet shelled out for new fins give yourself more time with the ones you have. But if you already bought yourself the split fins, don't give up improving your technique, as good technique will make those work better too.