Proper hose management when using pony bottles.

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You have gotten some very good advice from some very experienced instructors and divers and you seem to discount all of this and look for justification to continue diving that cluster of a rig. I have to agree with Devon Diver and suggest you find a competent tech instructor and get your gear unscrewed. I regularly teach to people much smaller than you and they do not have any problems carrying stages/pony bottles slung along with their camera equipment. Just because you own gear does not mean you should bring in with you on a dive. The second computer and console is not needed as is the spare air. Customizing the other hoses lengths will go alot to making that cluster look a bit better but proper training on gear setup and management would be some money well spent.
 
Your situation isn't that uncommon and there are two aspects to it.

One, you own a lot of equipment, maybe money is tight, and you don't want to feel like you are basically starting over with so much new equipment (cost).

Two, you are asking for help but aren't really that receptive to change and perhaps were hoping for a simpler solution such as some "magical" retractor.

Many of us started with gear that was sold to us when we perhaps didn't really know what we wanted/needed. If money is an issue the best solution is to at least have a game plan and to realize what you need to eventually accomplish. You can always phase in the needed changes over time. To a lesser extent I've done the same thing in the past as have many of us.

A pony bottle is fine. I use one. Sling it. I don't like button gauges either. Just use a 6" hose and band it to the tank. If slinging didn't work for you it's just because you either didn't give it a chance or you had it rigged incorrectly. Since it was a problem for you find someone locally that it isn't a problem for and have them help you.

If you have a pony you don't need a spare air. What's the idea there? Redundant redundancy?

If you have a spare console...take it apart and just use the spg. Save up for a few shorter hoses at the minimum. Consider wearing the extra 2nd stage around your neck and donate the main hose as you would do with your Air2 which you can now get rid of. Route your main hose under your right arm

Initially I had a few of your issues and the first step for me was to get rid of the console and move the computer to a boot on my wrist and I did the same thing with the compass. That leaves the spg. This should be the first hose that you replace with a shorter one and you can then just clip it to a waist D-ring.

Use a slightly longer hose for the main hose and route it under your arm. Use a short hose for the spare 2nd stage and bungee that around your neck. That will help you more than you would think if you fall down in surf or someone grabs the main reg out of your mouth. Ultimately the best concept I learned from Scubaboard was the spare 2nd stage on a shorter hose and bungeed around the neck. It solves many problems.

Just doing that along with slinging your pony cleans up your gear substantially and makes it much safer. Your current setup is just a tangle waiting for a snag. :)
 
It is a privilege getting advice from seasoned divers and I take that privilege very seriously. I do not want to come across as a student who does whatever he wants but I will tell you this: I can't just go out and start spending hundreds of dollars changing my setup and its not because I am pressed on cash but because I do not want to have 19,000 dollars worth of scuba gear in my house collecting dust.

I should also point out that I am not in distress. I dove with this exact setup about err... 25 dives or so and if it was not for me passing on my camera to a diver in my group I would probably have continued diving like this because it has not impeded my swimming, filming, diving, hover abilities or otherwise. It is not the best but with tweaks (reason for my thread) I will make it work for me until I obtain better.

Thank you all.
 
Just be sure you realize that most of the suggestions were slash and burn, not shop and spend. Also, while It has worked for 25 dives I'll venture that it's partly because you have not needed to deal with a situation. But hey, you're getting your head into your configuration and that's a good thing.

Pete
 
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It won't cost you money to bungie down hoses. You already said you had it slung before, so it won't cost money to re-sling it. It won't cost you money to loose to console. Strip the SPG out of the console and bungie it to the pony. If slinging didn't "work" for you, then you need to tweek something in your sling until it does.
 
It is a privilege getting advice from seasoned divers and I take that privilege very seriously. I do not want to come across as a student who does whatever he wants but I will tell you this: I can't just go out and start spending hundreds of dollars changing my setup and its not because I am pressed on cash but because I do not want to have 19,000 dollars worth of scuba gear in my house collecting dust.

You aren't the first novice diver to evolve into a less than optimal scuba configuration and certainly won't be the last. I made similar mistakes, when I was progressing through the 20-60 dive threshold. I added lots of extra gear to my set-up, lots of gadgets, lots of things on clips and lanyards - all of it, seemingly a necessity for my safety. I was wrong - and it nearly hurt me (see below).

I fully emphasize with your budget considerations. Several years ago I made the (crazy) decision to move to Asia and work as a professional scuba instructor - my income dwindled to a pitiful amount, and yet I still had to fund the purchase, maintenance and upgrade of both recreational and technical equipment. Through that experience, I learnt a lot about maximizing the efficiency, economy and functionality of the kit I selected.

Having a robust, effective and safe scuba configuration need not cost a fortune. Good initial selection is critical - and this where many inexperienced divers fall foul of scuba manufacturer marketing and a general compulsion to get more, more, more. It's hard to stomach the financial 'kick in the nuts' of realizing that you've fallen into that trap. I commiserate and, again, know what it feels like.

However, it's also ineffective to continue throwing good money after bad. All that kit you own has running costs - it needs maintenance, servicing and eventual replacement through wear-and-tear. The longer you hold onto it, the more the re-sale/second-hand value decreases. Decisive action at an early stage is financially prudent and will make a noticeable difference to the enjoyment of your diving.

What I did, when re-assessing my scuba configuration, was to make good use of the second-hand market. I sold on the stuff I didn't need/like... and replaced it with functional/efficient items also bought second-hand. You have a Spare Air... you don't need it. Sell it. Use that money to buy new hoses for your regs. That leaves you with some spare hoses (the old ones). Sell them. Use that money to convert your pony cylinder to DIN. You have a console on the Pony. Sell it. Use that money to buy a plain SPG. etc etc etc Ebay and Craigs List are your friends.

I should also point out that I am not in distress. I dove with this exact setup about err... 25 dives or so and... it has not impeded my swimming, filming, diving, hover abilities or otherwise. It is not the best but with tweaks (reason for my thread) I will make it work for me until I obtain better.

The main concerns that people have expressed about your configuration aren't primarily concerned with the swimming/filming/hovering abilities. They are concerned with a number of safety issues. Those safety issues are transparent until the occasion you find yourself impacted by them.

The issues specifically mentioned are; task-loading, entanglement and ease of operation. After (only) 25 dives, it's not surprising that you've not identified those hazardous factors yet - you won't until faced with an incident. What we (experienced divers) know is that sooner or later, Murphy's Law will strike and you will have to deal with an issue underwater. When you do, you will find your configuration to be an extreme liability.

As I mentioned earlier, at an early stage in my diving, I was that 'Christmas tree diver'. I dove for several years like that, oblivious to the issues that my gear was causing for me. Where I found my gear clumsy, I put it down to inexperience. I felt 'better' as a diver because I had bunches of extra stuff...a drysuit, a pony cylinder, whistles, bells, hoses, gauges everywhere. "hey look, I'm not a newbie any more!".

That continued until the day my regulator froze at 36m in the dark depths of an icy fresh-water lake. I was a Rescue Diver...with ~60 dives...I dealt with stress really well - a product of military officer training and operational experience...I considered myself a 'good' diver compared to my friends and peers.

Then I had a dramatic free-flow at depth, I had a less experienced buddy to watch out for, I had a tonne of kit and confusion to deal with. It was pitch black... so I had to hold a torch... there were bubbles everywhere... my buddy was wide-eyed and more panicked by the situation than me (maybe)... I had to grope around amongst various clips, lanyards and kit to find my LPI...my drysuit dump...my SPG.... everything took so long to understand and achieve.

After a ludicrously long time spent doing particularly nothing effective to resolve the problem, I signaled an ascent.... breathing from the free-flow reg as I was taught. Doing so in cold water froze up my teeth, which added to my pain, panic and confusion. That problem ceased by ~40ft, because my main cylinder emptied. Then I had to access my pony. That was horrible... it took seemingly forever to locate it. Buoyancy was all over the place... it was still difficult to operate the LPI and drysuit valves with all the kit and hoses I was wrapped with. Too much buoyancy, ascending too fast. Dump from BCD and drysuit... Too little buoyancy...sinking back down. Have to orally inflate because my main cylinder was empty... no way to sort out my drysuit now... Over and over again...

I lost track of my buddy at some point in the ascent..and didn't have the surplus mental capacity to deal with that.. I was maxed out mentally and physically. I was on my pony, no back-gas, no buddy...lost track of time completely... scared because I didn't know how much gas I had remaining... I had tried and failed to locate the pony SPG.... too much to do...too much difficulty... too much confusion.

Discarded hoses and gauges were dangling everywhere. My big pistol-grip torch was floating buoyantly from the wrist lanyard...tangling in everything... my mask kept flooding...LPI and drysuit inflator not working...my computer still beeping frantically...no idea of my depth... no idea how much time had elapsed...no idea what air remained...

I got to the surface eventually - and I'm sure an observer would have seen that I was wide-eyed and hyper-ventilating at the time. My computer was beeping like crazy. I struggled to locate my LPI again and was kicking like mad whilst orally inflating my BCD. My buddy surfaced soon after... a big relief, I can tell you.. it was another big stress factor to have lost them. We began the long surface swim of several hundred meters back to the shore - I was exhausted, my kit was heavy and dragging in the water. My buddy was panicking more than me... I had to make contact and help them.

I began worrying about my computer... the beeping.... I began 'listening' to my body... wondering if I would get DCS. It was a truly horrible experience. We got to the shore and walked into the dive center office - they could tell we were agitated and scared. A hot coffee and time to relax. Then my buddy started scratching their wrist. It itched "inside". S$%t.... the O2 kit came out... and we spent the next 60 minutes sucking on the good stuff and worrying ourselves silly. Kit in the car...drive to the hospital. More O2 for my buddy... suspected DCS, but not requiring hyperbaric treatment..."oh good, no helicopter flight to London!". Went home...spent the night worrying, little sleep.. like a zombie at work the next day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... my kit was "all right" too... and I had the skills surely. I was proved very wrong... and there was a distinct element in luck that nobody got seriously hurt. Luck, not judgement or skill.... and certainly not all the excess 'safety' kit I had.... was what got us out of the water without serious injury or worse.

Guess what.... most of that kit went under the stairs afterwards (no Ebay back then)... and stayed there in cobwebs. I started taking my configuration seriously... from a safety perspective. That was my "wake up call"... and I didn't need a second one. Sadly, there was no Scubaboard back then either... so lessons had to be learned the hard way... by experience and involvement.

That story I share with you... because I recognize, from my own experience, the mindset and perspective you seem to be showing in this thread. Far from being critical, I do emphasize with you. That said, please heed the advice you're being given by people... it is the right advice, but the value of that may not be apparent given your experience to date.
 
Your situation isn't that uncommon and there are two aspects to it.

One, you own a lot of equipment, maybe money is tight, and you don't want to feel like you are basically starting over with so much new equipment (cost).

Two, you are asking for help but aren't really that receptive to change and perhaps were hoping for a simpler solution such as some "magical" retractor.

Many of us started with gear that was sold to us when we perhaps didn't really know what we wanted/needed. If money is an issue the best solution is to at least have a game plan and to realize what you need to eventually accomplish. You can always phase in the needed changes over time. To a lesser extent I've done the same thing in the past as have many of us.

A pony bottle is fine. I use one. Sling it. I don't like button gauges either. Just use a 6" hose and band it to the tank. If slinging didn't work for you it's just because you either didn't give it a chance or you had it rigged incorrectly. Since it was a problem for you find someone locally that it isn't a problem for and have them help you.

If you have a pony you don't need a spare air. What's the idea there? Redundant redundancy?

If you have a spare console...take it apart and just use the spg. Save up for a few shorter hoses at the minimum. Consider wearing the extra 2nd stage around your neck and donate the main hose as you would do with your Air2 which you can now get rid of. Route your main hose under your right arm

Initially I had a few of your issues and the first step for me was to get rid of the console and move the computer to a boot on my wrist and I did the same thing with the compass. That leaves the spg. This should be the first hose that you replace with a shorter one and you can then just clip it to a waist D-ring.

Use a slightly longer hose for the main hose and route it under your arm. Use a short hose for the spare 2nd stage and bungee that around your neck. That will help you more than you would think if you fall down in surf or someone grabs the main reg out of your mouth. Ultimately the best concept I learned from Scubaboard was the spare 2nd stage on a shorter hose and bungeed around the neck. It solves many problems.

Just doing that along with slinging your pony cleans up your gear substantially and makes it much safer. Your current setup is just a tangle waiting for a snag. :)

Sensible advice.

Check the links here for some great images of how to do it.
Note that you don't need to go to a 5 or 7 foot hose for your primary 2nd stage, you could use a shorter 'standard' octo hose with a swivel routed under your right arm.

FKD - Single Reg Configuration

FKD - Stage/Deco Regulator

FKD - Deco Bottle Rigging


All these changes will cost is some thought, time and a few hoses of the correct lengths.
 
133031d1345412495-proper-hose-management-when-using-pony-bottles-my_setup.jpg

Kudos to you for recognizing a problem and addressing it. I could not subject myself to this kind of scrutiny. Looking at these pictures, I'm a little bit jealous. Oh, my rig's a lot cleaner, but my hairline's a little bit suspect underwater. Nice hair, Yarik.
:wink:
 
If you don't want gear gathering dust why not ebay it and make a few bucks for the suggestions here? Win/win right? I'm sure spare air would be an easy ebay sell :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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