Pushed Forward - Skill or Equipment?

[scubadada]

@tdallen - I see that you're "somewhere south of Boston" and am wondering if most of your dives will be cold or warm water? IF you are thinking about getting a new BC, you may prefer a jacket style for the additional weights you'll need to carry.

I dive a back inflate SP Knighthawk. I dive it with 20 lbs with a full 7mm and hooded vest. It holds at least 30 lbs between releasable weight pockets and trim pockets.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

With regard to post #27, Quite probably. He was taking into account my inexperience when he gave the advice. Also he no longer teaches wetsuit diving, drysuit only, the same practice as my local club. He clearly has his opinions and I am not qualified to argue but what he said did seem reasonable to me as a technically minded person.

Haha, I'm just joking with you. There is a rather *ahem* let's call them "vocal" crowd here on SB who would sooner leap from a tall building than dive in a jacket BC. Personally, the advice you received sounds very reasonable.

 

[scubadada]

Thanks for the link, just finished reading that thread. You probably did 4 years of my diving at current rate (hope to improve on that). Good info and while I've only been able to use it in the pool so far, very similar experience. Especially as regards putting a pocket back in under water. My solution was to take it off (very easy), put the pocket back in, put the bc back on, again, very easy. Did the same to adjust the tank for trim. I like AL's tank strap. Very simple, even submerged.
I've been using the Sureloc system on the i3 since we started and have learned it's very secure, so I'm not worried about accidentally losing a pocket. Saves me 4 pounds or so in the luggage and a BUNCH of space over the i3.
Replaced the plastic carrabiner with a real one on both shoulders. Will probably add carrabiners in a couple places instead of clipping to the loops as that was not as easy as a d-ring. Have pockets on even my thin wetsuits already, so shouldn't need a belt pocket.
Felt very stable floating on the surface. With all the weight behind me, I never felt pushed forward unless I blew the wing all the way up. The modular system is very handy. Going to go to the lds this weekend to test drive a large backpack with the medium straps and belt. If it fits better, just trading one part-no cost. Think it will be the cat's meow for travel.

I look forward to your dive review. I was pretty happy with it for my trips to Roatan in August and Bonaire in December.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

@tdallen - I see that you're "somewhere south of Boston" and am wondering if most of your dives will be cold or warm water? IF you are thinking about getting a new BC, you may prefer a jacket style for the additional weights you'll need to carry.

My dimension holds the 30lb I need with my drysuit, and I could put more in the pockets (or throw on a weight belt) if I needed it.

 

[tdallen]

@tdallen - I see that you're "somewhere south of Boston" and am wondering if most of your dives will be cold or warm water? IF you are thinking about getting a new BC, you may prefer a jacket style for the additional weights you'll need to carry.

So far most of my diving has been warm water vacation diving. I liked the horizontal trim of the Stiletto underwater, it was just frustrating not to be able to get my head above water on the surface without being pushed forward.

 

[mbs]

The bloke at my dive shop who is a very experienced diver and instructor on the North sea coast of UK (England Europe) which is always choppy and rough said I should not consider a back inflate when I asked about a Scubapro litehawk mainly because of the tipping forward tendency when well inflated. He said jacket type BCds vary in the proportion of air between the side and back pockets, most jacket bcds if slightly inflated for neutral buoyancy on a diver with correct minimal weighting will not be far off a back inflate performance under water, and much more stable when fully inflated at the surface.

Trying not to be wolf-like How much of your dive are you planning to spend on the surface vs under water? Your back inflate will be more stable while diving. None of that feeling like it wants to flip you over. I get what your guy is saying, but maybe more consideration should be given to whats best while diving?

 

[Diver0001]

Hi -

I'm a relatively new diver and just returned from a 8 dives with a Zeagle Stiletto. There are some things I like about it, others not so much. One issue is that I was unable to get into a good position on the surface. I know that a back inflate BCD (this is my first trip with one) requires you to not fully inflate on the surface, and try to lean into a position to float more on your back - but I couldn't get it to work well. Some additional notes:

• I'm 5'10", 185lbs, wearing a 3mm shorty.
• At sufficient inflation levels to get my head above water I was pushed forward uncomfortably.
• With less inflation I could achieve a more vertical position but my head was only partly out of the water, requiring the use of my regulator.
• I couldn't sustain a position on my back, in part because there was significant swell/chop.
• Bottom line is that I feel like was expending too much effort on the surface, and not getting help from my equipment to prepare for recovery to the dive boat.

Some additional thoughts, if they are relevant:

• My legs are lean/heavy and no help achieving a floating position. But, I may go to a full 3/2mm or 3mm in the future (I was getting cold) if that is matters.
• My fins are Aqua Lung Slingshots and slightly negatively buoyant, I think.
• It seemed to me that the Stiletto places a large bubble of air fairly high up in the bladder at high inflation levels.
• I was using 14lbs, 4lb in the front pockets and 3lb in the back trim pockets.

I was happy with both vertical and horizontal trim under the water - but recovery to the dive boat wasn't fun. Any suggestions on anything different to try or skills to work on? Or, are there other back inflate BCDs that would perform any better?

Thanks

It sounds like you're doing all the right things. Was this happening because of the chop or does it happen every time you're on the surface?

If the former, then try facing into the wind/current next time. If the latter then my advice would be to let a little more air out of the BCD and see how that works.

Are you using a crotch strap?

R..

 

[tdallen]

It sounds like you're doing all the right things. Was this happening because of the chop or does it happen every time you're on the surface?

This was my first trip with this BC and we had a fair amount of swell and chop throughout the trip, so I'm not sure what it's like in calm conditions.

If the latter then my advice would be to let a little more air out of the BCD and see how that works.

While letting some air out of the BC helped my vertical position, it also left me with my head partially submerged.

I wasn't using a crotch strap and I wish I'd been more observant about whether the BC was riding up. I don't think so, the cumberbund felt pretty secure - but it's hard to say. Since the Stiletto will take a crotch strap that's an option.

If these are just the challenges anyone faces in getting any back inflate setup to work, then I'll keep working at improving my skills and adding equipment (like a crotch strap) if appropriate. But, if there are other back inflate BCs that might better fit my body type, weight distribution, etc. then I'm also open to looking at them.

 

[AdivingBel]

@tdallen , trying to get my head around your situation...we're about the same height & weight. Maybe you have a unique body type. Everybody is a bit different. I have dived a Stiletto as well as other back inflate rigs (and jacket BCs which dive just fine). For me, there is a wide range of inflation between having your head sink and being pushed over on your face. All my weight is in pockets on my waist (currently 6 to 8 #s for warm water depending on exposure protection; none on cam bands) and I have a crotch strap. I can float low or med high at the surface, either is fine for up to 3/4 ft. chop (too much more than that and I'll pick another day ). If I really want up out of the water (catch some rays while waiting to be picked up ), I'll inflate my wing and lay back like an easy chair using an occasional fin kick to keep me prone. It's kind of a knack maybe not immediately obvious, but easily learned and well worth it for the benefits underwater (and since you already have one). YMMV, IMHO. Good luck .

 

[Diver0001]

I wasn't using a crotch strap and I wish I'd been more observant about whether the BC was riding up. I don't think so, the cumberbund felt pretty secure - but it's hard to say. Since the Stiletto will take a crotch strap that's an option.

A cummerbund will help but a back inflate BCD will always ride up and tip forward a bit. A crotch strap will help more. Try that, would be my advice.

If these are just the challenges anyone faces in getting any back inflate setup to work, then I'll keep working at improving my skills and adding equipment (like a crotch strap) if appropriate. But, if there are other back inflate BCs that might better fit my body type, weight distribution, etc. then I'm also open to looking at them.

I actually don't know. I've never tried using a wing without a crotch strap. What I DO know is that with my singles set (BP/W) I feel myself sitting on the crotch strap on the surface and when I need to hand it off to, for example, someone on a zodiac that as soon as I loosen the crotch strap it pitches forward.

That's why my first advice would be to see how it sits on the surface with a crotch strap.

R..