Question about ascent incident

[Matsya]

............................

Now, first allow me to request that no one bash me for whatever I did wrong. (I've seen a lot of that around this board.)

LeeAnne

I was struck by the comment that you see a lot of bashing on this Board. I have seen quite a few other posts that amount to saying the same thing. This Board is intended to attract divers and be a learning forum for new and experienced divers. Are people who have genuine questions being scared off by the attitude and responses of a few people on this Board? Is this a wake-up call to the Board?

So you use the string to vent whenever you are below the surface? How about when you are ascending...I'm supposed to be purging my BCD as I ascend, right? In my class they taught us to ascend by holding the hose above our heads and mashing down on that purge button. Is it better to be pulling the string instead? But then, that would only work if I was fully horizontal during ascent, right?

I was also taught to ascend vertically until I came to this Board and learnt that a horizontal ascent & descent is not only possible but even recommended by some !!! I tried it and became a convert. I do a hroizontal ascent to the safety stop at which point I have a completely empty BC and am more or less neutrally buoyant (working on it !!!) After the stop I do an angular ascent or vertical (depending on mood, distance from boat etc.).
And I use my kidney dump when ascending or for that matter descending

I am curious to know what kind of BC you were using. Most BCs have the deflate button at the top of the inflator hose and the inflate to the side. A few brands (and the one that I use) have both buttons on the side and adjacent to each other. I also went through this period of confusion and used to hit the inflate button by mistake. Now I have learnt. Is it possible that this might have happened to you?

 

[Leejnd]

What kind of fins were you using? I know that some are neutral, some are slight positive, and others are negatively buoyant. When I bought my fins, I noticed that ScubaPro stated that certain colors are neutral and some are negative. Personally, I prefer the more negatively buoyant fin like my Jets. The fin type could amplify your trim issues.

They are Mares Plana Avanti X-3 fins. Wow, I had no idea that fins had differing bouyancies! Another argument for not buying your equipment until you get some experience under water. Unfortunately, in order to take the OW class I had to purchase the mask, snorkel, fins and booties first, which meant I had to do it uneducated. Now I know that I would much rather have fins with a neutral or negative bouyancy. Too late to take them back now! I'm definitely not going to be purchasing the rest of my equipment for a while, until I know more about what I want.

From my perspective, you did a good de-brief and post-dive analysis. By doing so, it shows you are a learning diver and want to know how to prevent this from happening in future.

Thanks. That's the idea!

Don't hold your breath, better still, breathe out while you ascend so you don't hurt your lungs.

So that answers my question...that I should have been exhaling instead of just continuing to breathe. Something else to add to the memory banks.

I was struck by the comment that you see a lot of bashing on this Board. I have seen quite a few other posts that amount to saying the same thing. This Board is intended to attract divers and be a learning forum for new and experienced divers. Are people who have genuine questions being scared off by the attitude and responses of a few people on this Board? Is this a wake-up call to the Board?

I wouldn't say I was scared away...hey, I went ahead and posted my thread, right? Lets just say that some of the stuff I've seen on this board have made me wary. It's not so much on this "New Divers" forum, but definitely in other places. It just seems that there are a LOT of different opinions about the various aspects of diving, and some posters seem rather harsh and unforgiving with people who either make mistakes, or have different techniques or beliefs. Some of it almost seems like a religious passion! So I thought it best to just beg for mercy in advance.

I was also taught to ascend vertically until I came to this Board and learnt that a horizontal ascent & descent is not only possible but even recommended by some !!! I tried it and became a convert. I do a hroizontal ascent to the safety stop at which point I have a completely empty BC and am more or less neutrally buoyant (working on it !!!) After the stop I do an angular ascent or vertical (depending on mood, distance from boat etc.).

I've been reading about this a lot, and it makes sense to me. I'm going to try this on my next few dives and see if I can master it.

I am curious to know what kind of BC you were using. Most BCs have the deflate button at the top of the inflator hose and the inflate to the side. A few brands (and the one that I use) have both buttons on the side and adjacent to each other. I also went through this period of confusion and used to hit the inflate button by mistake. Now I have learnt. Is it possible that this might have happened to you?

I don't recall the brand of BCD (I rented from Sport Chalet -- they have a new store in Thousand Oaks, and all their rental equipment is brand new!). But it does have the inflator button on the side and the purge button at the top. But like someone else pointed out to me, I think that it was just a matter of 1) not being used to wearing gloves, and 2) squeezing the hose too tight that caused me to press both buttons.

LeeAnne

 

[cruisegirl]

Leeanne,
I'm glad to see you on this board and ok... I know Leeanne from another forum as well and she's always looking to educate herself... What a scary time for you.. But isn't it good to know your training kicked in?? I had a different problem with a crummy buddy and got low on air.... saw my skills come right into play........

My only other comment is don't let anyone take you deeper than 60 feet without getting many more dives under your belt and/or your AOW.... That caught my attention right off.... But I would dive with you any day... Maybe we'll cross paths soon.......
Debbie

 

[Leejnd]

Leeanne,
I'm glad to see you on this board and ok... I know Leeanne from another forum as well and she's always looking to educate herself... What a scary time for you.. But isn't it good to know your training kicked in?? I had a different problem with a crummy buddy and got low on air.... saw my skills come right into play........

My only other comment is don't let anyone take you deeper than 60 feet without getting many more dives under your belt and/or your AOW.... That caught my attention right off.... But I would dive with you any day... Maybe we'll cross paths soon.......
Debbie

Yeah, Debbie, that's me! LOL! I PM'd you, would love to go diving with a fellow cruise junkie!

 

[Charlie99]

The wisdom of descending again to 15 feet is questionable. This practice, known as "in-water recompression," is pretty controversial. DAN does not recommend it. Here's the FAQ from the DAN website:

Q: In the absence of a recompression chamber, does DAN recommend treating a "bent" diver with in-water recompression?

A: DAN does not recommend that symptomatic divers be recompressed while breathing standard air in the water. In some areas of the world, divers are treated with in-water recompression because of a lack of chamber facilities. {emphasis added}​

.

Their is a difference between completing "omitted decompression" and "in-water recompression".

The most significant difference is whether or not there are symptoms. Put another way, omitted decompression action plan is to prevent DCS, in-water recompression is to treat DCS.

If the situation is under control then going back down within a couple of minutes to 15' is IMO a good idea. As noted in my original post, by under control I mean

no DCS symptoms
trusted buddy present
adequate gas
no panic

 

[Charlie99]

I remember thinking, the moment that I realized I was in an uncontrolled ascent, to NOT hold my breath! One question...should I have been exhaling the whole time? I just kept breathing, but I wondered later if I should have been exhaling instead.

No, you don't have to exhale all the time.

The "always keep breathing" taught in the OW course is an oversimplification. The real problem of lung overexpansion injury only takes place if you close the airway and then ascend enough that the air inside your lungs exceeds its capacity.

Many people do not have voluntary control of the epiglottis and don't know whether or not their airway is open. The epiglottis is the little dohickey at the back of your throat that closes the windpipe when you swallow. You can most easily observe its action by noting how your airway is closed at the beginning of a cough. If your airway is open, even if you are not breathing out when you ascend, any excess expanding air will just bubble out of your mouth.

OTOH, if you are either inhaling or exhaling, then the airway must be open. Since it is a lot easier to just teach "always keep breathing", this is all most divers are taught.

On a related note, when you pause your breathing between inhaling and exhaling, you should keep the epiglottis open. It's OK to pause briefly if it is your chest and abdominal muscles holding your breath. It's NOT OK is you are holding your breath by closing the epiglottis.

My rule is "Never Close the Epiglottis". Doesn't sound quite as nice as "never stop breathing".

Charlie Allen

p.s. I occasionally drink some fruit punch underwater on long dives. While doing that, I make sure that I stay at the same depth, since you do indeed close your airway everytime you swallow.

 

[mselenaous]

:luxhello:

Leeann, You've done a great job at post dive analysis and educating yourself on the nuances. That is what seperates great divers from average divers (not necessarily the number of dives). And we have ALL had our learning curve incidences as well. This is a great forum from which to learn from others - especially since there are many details to consider and many techniques that might work better for some divers than others ... probably as many as there are brands, models, & combinations of dive geer. My advice is dive often - the more you do it the better you get at it, like everything else in life.

You might consider furthering your dive education. Bouyancy is one of the areas covered in more detail in the Advanced Open Water class or even the Bouyance Specialty course. For me personally, Rescue Diver class was the most confidence building experience.

Best of luck to you on your future dive.

 

[Chad Carney]

Either you vent through the inflator hose or vent through the rear dump valve. The trick is not to wait until you begin to cork before venting.

Red,

New divers are like new drivers, they need to know where the brake pedal is and how to use it quickly. Later on they can master downshifting through the gears.

I agree with you totally about buoyancy awareness.

I spend a huge amount of time in OW classes making students do buoyancy skills.

Chad

 

[Summer06]

I missed the times and you're pretty much fine based on the times you gave, IMO you don't need to practice those buttons in the pool when you can do that in front of TV. You'll get that at the surface anyhow and the suggestion to use the string and pull is a good one. In fact I normally descend horizontally by pulling on my string. The inflate valve is the only one I use until I surface then I'll blow some air into it instead of using tank air for the BC. I try to avoid wasting Nitrox for my BC if I can.

To be honest I've made that mistake at the surface myself when I first started diving and it's not something I'd care to do at depth. After a few dives you'll have it solid especially if you stick to pulling the string to dump air.

But...why do you descend horizontally? I'm only asking because I'm always trying to improve my diving)

 

[cummings66]

I do that because I can, no really it's more about control. For one you see where you are and can slow or stop your descent when needed, for another you have better situational awareness, i.e. I'm not going to drop down on top of somebody waiting at the bottom for example and I know where my buddy is.

There's nothing magic about being horizontal, I just like it.

One thing I would say and this is in disagreement with many training agencies. I do not believe in the dumb it down keep it simple method of teaching people to dive. By saying they're not capable of handling X if I taught it is IMO shortchanging that person.

I know for example in my Padi OW class we were taught some basic rescue skills and later on after having completed a few more classes I was asked if I wanted to be a DM. I said I'd consider it but I wanted to watch a class being taught first. In that class they taught the basics, did a very good job at it as well and it impressed me at their innovation. After the class was over I asked them about why they didn't teach anything regarding basic rescue skills and was told it'd only confuse them so we don't teach it.

I completely disagree. Given enough time to instruct you can teach them most anything and they'll handle it. For example I was taught in my OW class about the dumps other than the deflator and why we might want to use them. For example if your butt is high that rear dump is at a highpoint and will work right now. Takes only a split second to reach. Now compare the time it takes to roll and come upright to use the deflator. In the time you do that you've ascended a few feet, made the problem worse and possibly unrecoverable. It's not a hard skill to learn, in fact it was one of those predive checklist items we were taught in the Padi OW class I took.

During my drysuit class it was explained like this, when you have a problem you must fix it ASAP because if you let it grow you can end up out of control in the blink of an eye. If that means disconnecting your inflator to stop something you do it, and yes I had an inflator stick open on me. In my case it did it at 100 feet and I could in no way allow an uncontrolled ascent from there so as I getting my drysuits exhaust valve up high I was also removing the inflator. Sometimes you do what you have to do and hopefully you've covered it in training so you know what to do.

So, IMO learn where those dumps are and use them. To insist that it's too tough to learn the location is IMO not good enough and it's one reason I'm not a DM. I don't believe in making things easier so you can pass a person. It's not like there's a thousand skills to learn. Simply reach back and pull the cord.

I have 2 dumps, the deflate button and the OPV at the bottom. I can use either one and I use whichever I need to in order to control what I'm doing. If I'm vertical I use the dump, if horizontal I use the OPV. Something I was taught in OW and found it works in practice. Why should I change my body position in the water to dump air?

One other thing my instructor told me, if you do something and things go wrong like they did here, stop doing that immediately. I'm sure in this case you only had seconds to react, but it is an interesting saying none the less.