Question about “balanced rigs” and having all ballast unditchable

[Compressor]

OMG.
This thread is dizzying.

 

[PfcAJ]

There is no benefit to adding weight. The point was the heavy tech diver has a presumably legit reason for say 'I get by with a balanced rig, my dive gives me no choice.' The 'I don't like a weight belt or integrated' new diver claiming balanced covers them, is claiming a less stringent safety margin without the same justification, or training, as the tech diver where it was a necessity.

Do we always feel comfortable with a new diver having no ditchable if they claim it is balanced?

If it’s balanced and they don’t need ditchable weight then....yes?

 

[boulderjohn]

The point was the heavy tech diver has a presumably legit reason for say 'I get by with a balanced rig, my dive gives me no choice.'

I still don't think you understand the concept.

If I am diving my steel LP 108 doubles, I do not have a balanced rig. I therefore need to have some form of redundant buoyancy, because if I lose my wing buoyancy at depth, I am in deep doodoo otherwise.

 

[MichaelMc]

I still don;t think you understand the concept.

If I am diving my steel LP 108 doubles, I do not have a balanced rig. I therefore need to have some form of redundant buoyancy, because if I lose my wing buoyancy at depth, I am in deep doodoo otherwise.

Having gotten a concrete definition of balanced, PfcAJ's, I was trying to ask:

'are we happy with basic students diving a balanced rig, *that has no ditchable* for no reason beyond convinence?'

I was trying contrast:
- basic student picking no ditchable, but balanced, for convenience sake.
- tech diver forced into no ditchable, but balanced, due to gas.

I was leaving un disturbed any issue beyond ditchable or even just balanced of:
- tech diver not balanced, as carrying still more gas, (you and your LP 108s).

There seemed to be a notion that balanced rig is sufficient. I was questioning that for basic divers.\

Edit: I had read PfcAJ's description of redundancy as part of the balanced. Your post suggests it is not. That does not change what I was trying to ask.

 

[Saboteur]

OMG.
This thread is dizzying.

It's like a car accident..... you can't look away.

 

[CT-Rich]

Let’s do a scenario and everyone pick their recommended configuration for a basic diver. I’ll set a couple of basic parameters so we don’t get into the weeds arguing about semantics. First the diver we are ADVISING is a newly certified diver, decent health and is planning on ocean diving where water temps for the good dive season ranges between 60F and mid-70s. He is going to want single tank diving max depth to 100 FSW. The vast majority of his dives will be in the 30’-60’ range.
GEAR
He can use AL tanks, Steel, pony bottle (he will NOT be intentionally solo diving, but may get random instabuddy). For buoyancy you can choose a jacket, back inflate, BP/w. The plate can be either steel or AL.

He needs to have redundant buoyancy. It can be what ever you like, double bladder, wetsuit, dry suit, lift bag or SMB, but he has to be able to rest at the surface passively. You also have to describe how they are ballasted. He needs to be able to get from 100 fsw with a disabled BCD. Being the core topic more detail is encouraged. If you have an overarching philosophy, state it. For completeness (this a basic forum), what are the emergency gear you think he should have?

We’ll skip the branding as much as possible. Here is the caveat. You need to justify your choice for each pick. You cannot comment on another persons choices until after you post about yours.

(This be what finally kills this Franken-thread or gets it to 80 pages)

 

[MichaelMc]

Hmmm. Bioprene buoyancy? Or pic that of a 'friend'?

Now you made it hard.
A part of TA'ing I hate. 'How much lead do I need?' Ahhh... Diver measuring device over there, aka pool. Dip yourself, like we did last week, and let us know.

 

[PfcAJ]

Let’s do a scenario and everyone pick their recommended configuration for a basic diver. I’ll set a couple of basic parameters so we don’t get into the weeds arguing about semantics. First the diver we are ADVISING is a newly certified diver, decent health and is planning on ocean diving where water temps for the good dive season ranges between 60F and mid-70s. He is going to want single tank diving max depth to 100 FSW. The vast majority of his dives will be in the 30’-60’ range.
GEAR
He can use AL tanks, Steel, pony bottle (he will NOT be intentionally solo diving, but may get random instabuddy). For buoyancy you can choose a jacket, back inflate, BP/w. The plate can be either steel or AL.

He needs to have redundant buoyancy. It can be what ever you like, double bladder, wetsuit, dry suit, lift bag or SMB, but he has to be able to rest at the surface passively. You also have to describe how they are ballasted. He needs to be able to get from 100 fsw with a disabled BCD. Being the core topic more detail is encouraged. If you have an overarching philosophy, state it. For completeness (this a basic forum), what are the emergency gear you think he should have?

We’ll skip the branding as much as possible. Here is the caveat. You need to justify your choice for each pick. You cannot comment on another persons choices until after you post about yours.

(This be what finally kills this Franken-thread or gets it to 80 pages)

Al80, steel plate, 5mm suit with a hood, weight on a belt as needed to be neutral at 15’ with no gas in the wing and near empty tank.

This isn’t rocket surgery... it’s the most basic principles of scuba gear selection.

 

[CT-Rich]

I have and like a back inflate BCD. It has 40+ lbs of lift and two integrated weight pouches. For a tank, I use steel 120s (an admitted air hog) you can never have too much gas on your back. I would recommend either a 5 or 7 mm wetsuit., not as complicated as a drysuit to learn with and simpler than a drysuit at shallow depth, also much less lead required than diving dry. Weight goes into the BCD in thirds, say 5 lbs in each pocket and 10 on a belt. Standard weighting (eyes at surface level with 500 psi). Virtually all ditchable, I have not used a crotch strap so nothing to entangle the belt. Belt needs a metal buckle, none of that nylon crap (never had a metal buckle accidentally open)

If he wants to dive dry, a weight harness with two quick releases.

My philosophy is that you plan on being on the surface at the end of all dives. I do a lot of shore diving a and they sometimes result in long surface swims. Two cutting tools, DSMB, spool, whistle and a light(s).

 

[CT-Rich]

Al80, steel plate, 5mm suit with a hood, weight on a belt as needed to be neutral at 15’ with no gas in the wing and near empty tank.

This isn’t rocket surgery... it’s the most basic principles of scuba gear selection.

We just spent 40 pages arguing about it. This is a basic forum, it shouldn’t be difficult.