Question from a not yet cave diver

[1amphibian]

I was doing some diving in several of the springs in central and North Florida this week including both Alexander and Manatee. These springs have awesome flow out of the main vents.

I swam towards the opening of the cave (though clearly in the daylight section not more than 10 feet from the wall, I will not attempt cave diving until I have been properly trained) I was trying to figure out how you read and manage that kind of water flow.

My question is this: How do you manage to get into caves like those? I mean that is a lot of flow and I don't see how simply finning your way in would work.

I am very curious how you do this and would appreciate some insight on this.

Chris

 

[Cave Diver]

I was doing some diving in several of the springs in central and North Florida this week including both Alexander and Manatee. These springs have awesome flow out of the main vents.

I swam towards the opening of the cave (though clearly in the daylight section not more than 10 feet from the wall, I will not attempt cave diving until I have been properly trained) I was trying to figure out how you read and manage that kind of water flow.

My question is this: How do you manage to get into caves like those? I mean that is a lot of flow and I don't see how simply finning your way in would work.

I am very curious how you do this and would appreciate some insight on this.

Chris

Through various techniques learned in a cavern class.

 

[karstdvr]

II swam towards the opening of the cave (though clearly in the daylight section not more than 10 feet from the wall, I will not attempt cave diving until I have been properly trained) I was trying to figure out how you read and manage that kind of water flow.

My question is this: How do you manage to get into caves like those? I mean that is a lot of flow and I don't see how simply finning your way in would work.

I am very curious how you do this and would appreciate some insight on this.

Chris

I think cavediver in this thread gave the best advice. There are techniques for handling high flow,and you appear to have a strong curiosity which has lead you do a cavern dive without adequate training. It would be great to say that all fatalities in our sport only occured in the cave zone,but some have occured in the cavern zone,hence one reason for cavern training as the basis of all courses. This is a sport that does not forgive mistakes,and learning and obeying all the rules are tantamount to survival,plus learning the basics to cavern diving in a book or internet forum isn't a substitute that will insure your survival.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hey Chris, don't let these guys fool you. Though I am a certified cave diver, I don't dive a lot of very high flow systems and sometimes I still find it a real challenge.

I think I can say a little more without tempting you to go in untrained...aside from specific propulsion techniques with experience you learn to read the cave...sort of like going up river in a canoe. Of course you need to be prepared to run lines handle problems and all the other normal diver stuff while dealing with the flow.

I remember contemplating all of this in JB once when it was really blowing and the flow had me pinned up against a big flat rock like a fly stuck to fly paper. It was a good spot to stop and think for a while. There were several other occasions when I had cause to pause and consider my high flow diving technique but I'll save those for later. LOL

 

[Dive-aholic]

Chris, you don't fin in high flow systems. You'll do nothing more than increase your SAC and blow through your air. I dove Devil's and JB a few times before I finally figured out the techniques. Now that I've finally gotten it, I love high flow. Although, one of the best parts is the ride out.

 

[karstdvr]

Hey Chris, don't let these guys fool you.

Of course you need to be prepared to run lines handle problems

Mike
I think you typically have some good suggestions,but I don't understand this. "Don't let these guys fool you",like don't worry about it,but "be prepared to run lines handle problems",which sounds like a skill you'd learn in a cavern class.
I know you said you don't dive a lot of high flow cave systems,but if you recall this ends up being one of the biggest challanges to new cavern divers,because keeping the line from entangling them while the flow blows the line and themselves everywhere. There quite a few times that I've had to delay my exit while waiting for a new cavern/cave diver get unentangled at the entrance because the flow wrapped line around everything. There is a reason why we have a no lights rule at springs,and why maps weren't sold unless a c-card verified training level,and consequently there was a reason why accident/fatalities went down. I encourage Chris to have fun,just my suggestion is to get training and learn the skills which will allow him to expand his curiosity safely.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike
I think you typically have some good suggestions,but I don't understand this. "Don't let these guys fool you",like don't worry about it,but "be prepared to run lines handle problems",which sounds like a skill you'd learn in a cavern class.
I know you said you don't dive a lot of high flow cave systems,but if you recall this ends up being one of the biggest challanges to new cavern divers,because keeping the line from entangling them while the flow blows the line and themselves everywhere. There quite a few times that I've had to delay my exit while waiting for a new cavern/cave diver get unentangled at the entrance because the flow wrapped line around everything. There is a reason why we have a no lights rule at springs,and why maps weren't sold unless a c-card verified training level,and consequently there was a reason why accident/fatalities went down. I encourage Chris to have fun,just my suggestion is to get training and learn the skills which will allow him to expand his curiosity safely.

Sorry, I think you misunderstood what I tried to write. I wrote

Hey Chris, don't let these guys fool you. Though I am a certified cave diver, I don't dive a lot of very high flow systems and sometimes I still find it a real challenge.

Which was meant to convey the idea that even after all the training, it still isn't easy and more experience is needed to get good at it.

Is that better or clearer? Nothing I wrote was meant, in any way, to suggest that he should go in without training.

 

[karstdvr]

My apologies Mike,I appreciate the clarification

 

[MikeFerrara]

No need at all to opologize. If you didn't read it as I intended it others may not have and needed to be straightened out.

 

[1amphibian]

I thank everyone for your concern and I am planning to take a cavern course in the next couple of months. I respect and appreciate the need for proper training and have my path set out before me.

I was not in any way asking this question so that I could venture into places like that, I was simply curious as to how it is done.

One other question I do have is, do you really consider that a cavern dive? If your familiar with Manatee, I was not even to where the tree stuck in the top of the entrance was, my g/f said that my fins never even made it under the rock where the overhead starts (as she was watching from a couple of feet behind me and out of the flow.

If that is the case, then I will not venture to that degree again until after my cavern course. I do not want to violate any of the rules as you all have said, it is not forgiving if you do.

Thanks,

Chris