Questions about Poseidon regs.

[Bob DBF]

Bob, I've been super busy lately but we should maybe hit Stillwater or Gerstle before the winter storms really hit.

Or in between them later.

That's where the Poseidon kinda has me under a spell right now, being the history of it and all. At just under $700 it's between a Poseidon or a Kraken.

If I had that kind of money to dispose of, loose the Kraken.

I need another reg like a hole in my head, but when it comes to addictions sometimes we are powerless against it.

I hear ya brother.


Bob

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Well at least a scuba gear addiction only affects your wallet to some degree during the acute stage.
It could be worse, like drugs, alcohol, or sleazy women.

---------- Post added September 16th, 2015 at 06:49 PM ----------

If I had that kind of money to dispose of, loose the Kraken.

Well actually I don't *really* have the money, that's why I have to get rid of stuff to finance new gear (or new to me anyway).
See, I consider myself a "functional" addict.

 

[rx7diver]

I was wondering what the difference is between the Xtreme, Jetstream, and Cyklon? ... I heard they're unbelievably smooth and great breathers, is that true? How bullet proof are they?

Eric Sedletzky,

I own two complete Jetstream's/Odin's and another Jetstream 1st stage. I purchased them all new in the mid 1990's for deep air (extended range) and technical nitrox diving on Great Lakes shipwrecks. My first stages are the then-new model which was cone-like on one end and flat on the other end, and incorporated an over-pressure release valve (in addition to the over-pressure release valve built into the 2nd stage hose). This 1st stage model replaced the long-produced first stage model that was cone-like on both ends and did NOT have an integrated over-pressure valve.)

Divers I was learning from/with and diving with at the time preferred these regs for very cold water (often << 45 F), very high tank pressures (>= 3,500 psig, often ~4,000 psig), and deep depths (180 - 230 ffw, and deeper) when diving air/nitrox and (later) when diving Tri-Mix.

I purchased mine new under condition that the LDS owner (my friend and first technical diving instructor) would sell me a complete set of tools with which to service the regs and teach me how to service these regs. He had his store manager/Poseidon tech (another friend of mine) put me through a thorough Poseidon service course.

Iirc, service on these diaphragm 1st stage and pilot-valve 2nd stage regs is straightforward, though much more complicated compared to my piston-based Scubapro Mk 10's and Balanced Adjustable/G250's. (However, my particular regs have *never* been serviced&#8212;by me or anyone else. And, in fact, they hadn't been used for several years until this past July when I let my young daughters use them in a backyard swimming pool.)

Their gas delivery at depth is prodigious, as mentioned in an earlier post. I used to think they didn't breathe smoothly at all, until another friend (Bill Gardner, then captain/owner of the "Royale Diver," an Isle Royale, Lake Superior, Michigan 6-pack charter cabin cruiser) adjusted the second stages, which made them breathe incredibly smooth. However, their delivery could never compare to the smoothness of my Scubapro Mk 10 + G250/Balanced Adjustable (or, especially, of my Mk 10 + D400!), imho.

Hope this helps.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[Blue Quaker]

What about running a Cyklon 300 on an Xtreme or Jetstream 1st? does anybody do that since the metal Cyklon is kinda cool being metal and also more abuse resistant for beach dives etc.
I suppose they would have to be detuned to match the lower IP of the balanced 1st's.
But then I kinda like unbalanced stuff, simple with a built-in low air warning.


Bob, I've been super busy lately but we should maybe hit Stillwater or Gerstle before the winter storms really hit.
I'd like to try out the Cyklon.
I'm thinking of dumping several regs sets I have accumulated, including an almost brand new Hog set up. It's a fine reg but it's a little meh to me, nothing really special about it in my imagination.
That's where the Poseidon kinda has me under a spell right now, being the history of it and all. At just under $700 it's between a Poseidon or a Kraken. In the back of my mind I'm hoping I'll get over it soon or I'm going to be spending money whether I like it or not. Here we go again!
I need another reg like a hole in my head, but when it comes to addictions sometimes we are powerless against it.
If I like the Cyklon maybe I'll search fleabay and keep an eye out. I hear they really haven't changed much in almost 60 years.

We run Cyclon 2nd stages on Xstream 1st stages on our stage/ deco tanks....IP set at 150. Been doing this for 3 years without problems. The original Xstream 1st stages were non adjustable with an acceptable IP of 116 - 160 psig (depending on the springs in the 1st stage) so I assumed that the seat can take the increased intermediate pressure without problems... So far no problems and no IP creep

 

[tbone1004]

Blue, the concern is usually whether the springs can provide the adequate pressure to get up there vs the seats being able to handle it. The Cyklon does require 165psi to breathe like it is supposed to, but if you're doing OK at 150 that is good to know.

Regarding smoothness mentioned by RX7, the smoothness is the cracking pressure of the pilot valves, is what it is with that design, some love it, some hate it, few are indifferent.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Blue, the concern is usually whether the springs can provide the adequate pressure to get up there vs the seats being able to handle it. The Cyklon does require 165psi to breathe like it is supposed to, but if you're doing OK at 150 that is good to know.

Regarding smoothness mentioned by RX7, the smoothness is the cracking pressure of the pilot valves, is what it is with that design, some love it, some hate it, few are indifferent.

So tbone, explain the 'cracking pressure' feature/quirk of the Poseidon's. I'm still not fully understanding the characteristic.
Does that mean they are hard to get started initially but once you get air flow they really flow?
Then somebody else once told me that the deeper they go the better they breathe, is that true?

 

[tbone1004]

if they are tuned improperly they will be a bit fiesty at above 20ft, other than that it's about the same until you put helium in there, then they get super easy to breathe, but so does everything else.

For the cracking pressure. If you take a "normal" second stage, and while you are in horizontal trim, simply lower it out of your mouth, it will instantly start to freeflow. This is because the diaphragm is face down and the vacuum created by the air escaping sucks the diaphragm up which depresses the lever. With side exhaust regulators, they won't do this nearly as bad, if at all. The Cyklons are not servo assisted, for reference. The increase in cracking pressure is due to the fact that the regulator isn't breathing for you like it is with other regulators while in good trim. If the regulator is vertical, so diaphragm perpendicular to the horizon, then the Poseidons will have a lower cracking pressure than the standard regulators because it requires less effort to crack the servo than it does to depress the lever. The other factor is that none of the Poseidons are balanced second stages, so they are all very sensitive to IP. The 150psi Cyklons have to be tuned very differently than normal to operate at 150 vs 165, and the Jetstream/Xstream can't be adjusted to breathe well at that high of an IP, they have to be at or below 125 or they are positively miserable. Lower the better actually to a point. Finding the "magic number" is the tough part. My Jetstreams are all set at 120, and Cyklons at 165.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't think I'd have any trouble with them.
I have a very high tolerance to different breathing characteristics of different regs. I've heard people belly ache about this reg and that reg and how this one breathes great and this other one sucks, etc etc, I dived many of the same regs they bitch about and don't see what they are whining about. This is all of course going back in history and doesn't have much to do with the content of this thread, other than to illustrate the point that I seem to have a knack to make anything work and to get used to it. After all, I dove a stock 1960 DA Aquamaster for a while and talk about praying to Jesus for your next breath in a head down position. I got to the point where I didn't notice it and the dive became just as automatic and smooth as any other dive with modern gear.
I want to give these things a shot.

 

[ams511]

If you are looking for something to play with. I often see Sherwood Ultima regulators going for cheap on ebay. They appear to be Jetstream seconds with a standard Sherwood first. I am not sure of the hoses though. Also Dive Rite used to sell Jetstream regulators.

 

[tbone1004]

the dive rites go for wicked amounts of money as they were the only black MK3 first stages produced. The Sherwood Ultimas are in fact Jetstreams.