Questions for Ex-NAVY Divers

[dadediver]

No, a recruiter can't be exactly trusted. It's like a car salesman; they have a quota, and they'll tell you what you WANT to hear. That's not to say they'll lie, but it'll seem really cool, and a great deal....until you're in.

You don't just *join* the Navy dive program. You have to first be selected for it, then you have to qualify for it, then take the extremely arduous school...then you *may* become a Navy Diver. There is ABSOLUTELY no way that the recruiter can say you're qualified for this. NONE.

Benefits are standard across the service; there's a wide variety of websites covering this.

For the Navy; no, there likely no way to guarantee entrance into Dive School. As I said, there's a selection and qualification process for it. They don't just take joe blow off the street for the elite program. And no, you won't be able to have a lawyer look over your enlistment contract. The actual enlistment contract will be signed at the Entrance station, NOT the recruiter’s office. The good news, it's a standard form, so you can easily see where it says what you're supposed to get.

If you somehow do get a contract to go to dive school after basic training, and fail (which I think 60% of the selectees do), your rate (your job) will become what's known as "Needs of the Navy". Ever wonder how the Navy gets people to enlist for jobs that no one would do? This is one way. You'll be involuntarily re-classed into whatever the Navy needs you to be- cook, paper-pusher, supply clerk...

No, I don't think you realize either the physical requirements of this school. Well-trained and very fit Sailors and Soldiers enter the school, and few graduate. After a few years of touring the world, you'll not be ready for their requirements. And if you do get in- don't say ANYTHING about your instructor rating, or previous dive experience. You'll become the instant "favorite" of all the instructors, and that won't be fun.

I don't think you realize what you're getting into with the military. Are you willing to sacrifice your life for the requirements of the United States? Would you be willing to suit up and dive in on a job you KNOW that will kill you? Joining the military is NOT something you do *just* for stability, or to have a job as you 'relax' from your 4 years gallivanting the world; which is what it sounds like you're after.

I'd recommend you look into commercial dive training.

I looked at your bio and it said you are serving in the Army and I guess at Benning. Question for you. Did you ever go through the either of the dive schools?

I served (Army) and went to Key West for the 6 week course (I think this is either 7 or 8 weeks now) and my sons are currently serving which one is heading to Panama after waiting for 4 years for his slot for the dive school. My son was diving as a collateral duty (out of rate) with no military dive schools, just his open water cert. He will be finally in a dive locker before long if he passes Panama dive school. He had three interviews with the Cadre and they asked him about being open water certified and they said that helped him into the up coming class. There are many dive schools. They even have a basic scuba course for the callateral duties for those out of rate. In my class, we had Marines, Air Force, Navy and Army. The wash out rate is around 25-30 percent now due to the tough screening for the first class diving program (I think they now call this second class diver program). Once you are done with the first class diving school (A school) there are many diving C schools. The Key West school had a 80 percent washout rate.


My entire family to include my wife has served (all the branches except Air Force) and we were never lied to by a recuiter. A few of us (myself included) may not had been happy with our MOS or rates but the job description was there and was acurate. I even changed my MOS without any problems.

I can say that the Army used to have more divers than that of the Navy at one time. The Army used to and still may, guarantees your MOS and first duty station if you score high enough on the ASVAB. The MOS guarantee is for the school though. You will need to complete the school.

---------- Post added January 31st, 2014 at 04:24 PM ----------

Seconded!


I'm not jumping in his stuff. I'm giving him the unvarnished truth of what military service will be like, from 14 years of experience living it.

If you think THIS is "jumping in his stuff", just wait until Chief Petty Officer in charge of his basic training decides to REALLY jump in his "stuff". It'll make this little conversation seem like pillow talk...

You are giving him the unvarned truth from your perspective of YOUR 14 years of service.

He isnt in boot yet so why talk to him like he is. I would think that once he is in boot, he'll realize that the gloves are off and full game on. Last I looked, SCUBABoard.com isnt boot.

OH and btw........thank you for your service.

 

[Akimbo]

…If you somehow do get a contract to go to dive school after basic training, and fail (which I think 60% of the selectees do), your rate (your job) will become what's known as "Needs of the Navy"...

I don’t think anyone washed out of any of my Navy diving classes. Navy divers are NOT combat swimmers. The class before me had a guy wash out from what was basically a claustrophobia test… and he had his Dolphins (submarine qualified). Apparently being bolted into a Mark V with blacked-out viewports (which they don’t use anymore) is much different than living on a boat (submarine in Navy jargon).

… Would you be willing to suit up and dive in on a job you KNOW that will kill you?...

That is utter nonsense. Navy divers are never asked to make a dive that is likely to hurt them. Hurting a diver is really bad for a diving officer’s career. You are confusing combat divers/SEALs with Navy divers… and exaggerating at that. SEALs have been known to sacrifice themselves to protect their team, which is totally different than being ordered someplace with no chance of survival.

 

[lavachickie]

My son enlisted in the Navy as a diver candidate in 2012. It is now its own rating and managed within the Navy Special Ops community. He had to pass the PST and medical before they offered him a contract; it is six years for divers. He then had to be placed into a lottery to get a basic training class. He waited for almost six months before he got a reporting date for basic at Great Lakes Naval Traiing Center. During his wait he was required to repeat the PST every month to retain his place in the lottery. The special ops community have their own ship division (unit) during basic; consequenlty, they only have so many vacancies every training cycle. As you might imagine, the empahsis is on fitness in basic. After basic he had to wait with his shipmates until they had enough dive candidates from the next basic class for pre-dive, again at Great Lakes. The emphasis in pre-dive is on underwater water fitness and confidence. Pool week is the discriminator. If you can successfully pass pool week you move on to A-school at Panama City. There you will still have a challenge to succeed as a 2nd Class Diver. If not, you have to re-classify into another specialty. I recommend you search YouTube for pool week videos. He was a medical drop during pre-dive; and had to reclassify into a different rating. His choices were very limited to what the Navy had available. His advice would be to enlist in the Navy for something you want to do in the event you don't complete the program, and the request dive school. Keep in mind the age cut-off for diver training is 26.

Actually, I recommend ANY recreational diver look up those pool week videos (sometimes called "hit videos"). It was inspiring to watch the composure and skill of the divers recovering, and really gave me a better understanding of what one could/should consider in terms of situational awareness, and water comfort. Whew!

 

[Akimbo]

Actually, I recommend ANY recreational diver look up those pool week videos (sometimes called "hit videos"). It was inspiring to watch the composure and skill of the divers recovering, and really gave me a better understanding of what one could/should consider in terms of situational awareness, and water comfort. Whew!

I concur, but don't confuse the harassment dives in BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL) Training with harassment dives for Navy Scuba and 2nd Class divers. BUD/S is much more aggressive. Also remember that they don’t spring this on you the first day in the pool. They definitely worked up to it in my class. I am glad I experienced it.

 

[T.C.]

I don’t think anyone washed out of any of my Navy diving classes. Navy divers are NOT combat swimmers.

Never said there were. But you're saying that NO ONE failed the physical requirements, acedemic requirements, and performance measures in your class? That would have to be some record...From what I've learned, Dive Schools is not a "gentleman's course" where the goal is to train and graduate as many students as possible.

That is utter nonsense. Navy divers are never asked to make a dive that is likely to hurt them. Hurting a diver is really bad for a diving officer’s career. You are confusing combat divers/SEALs with Navy divers… and exaggerating at that. SEALs have been known to sacrifice themselves to protect their team, which is totally different than being ordered someplace with no chance of survival.

Yes, this may be true in peacetime. However, the Navy is first and formost a MILITARY service, and this would NOT hold true in war. In combat, there may be times where you have to make a dive that is so important and vital, that the risk of near-certain death is considered acceptable.

We can play "what if" all day on this, but anyone who has served knows that there is a chance they can be ordered to perform a mission so important their their life is considered secondary to the mission accomplishment. That's what I'm trying to ask of him; would he willingly sacrifice his life for the Nation?

Did you ever go through the either of the dive schools?

No, I didn't. I have known some Navy divers, and am well aware of the Army Divers program. In fact; I've mentioned it in most of my posts here.

My entire family to include my wife has served (all the branches except Air Force) and we were never lied to by a recuiter.

I never said that the recuiter lies. Mine didn't to me. When I get new Soldiers, and they complain "my recruiter lied to me"; they go straight into the 'problem child' catagory, and I assign them to serve with my most...motivating...NCOs.

That said; Recruiters will tell a kid what they want to hear, to get them to sign up. They won't lie; but they may not get "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." They told me all about the fun of maneuvering the tank, shooting gunnery...but didn't tell me about the long hours of maintaining the tank, of replacing a track in ankle deep mud...But I actually enjoy that as much as the other things. If they'd told me about the BS paperwork that takes up more and more of my time, though; I might have walked away!

The Army used to and still may, guarantees your MOS and first duty station if you score high enough on the ASVAB. The MOS guarantee is for the school though. You will need to complete the school.

As I'm not on recruiting duty, I can't speak to that. If they still do, though, and you fail out of dive school, the Army isn't too upset. They always need more infantry, truck drivers, and supply clerks. That's what I was trying to convey to him with the "needs of the Navy".

You are giving him the unvarned truth from your perspective of YOUR 14 years of service. He isnt in boot yet so why talk to him like he is. I would think that once he is in boot, he'll realize that the gloves are off and full game on. Last I looked, SCUBABoard.com isnt boot.

Because I feel it's better that he hears harsh reality now, then after his butt belongs to Neptune, the Navy, and Chief Petty Officer Chippy...Paint Chippy. And like I said; I'm not speaking to him like he's in basic. I'll leave that to the Chiefs that are on what we'd call "the trail".

thank you for your service.

And Thank You (both) for yours as well.

 

[Akimbo]

... But you're saying that NO ONE failed the physical requirements, acedemic requirements, and performance measures in your class? That would have to be some record....

Not that I recall, and it wasn’t uncommon at all. One guy got sick and had to start over in another class. The instructors could do a lot to make you quit if they really wanted to, but there is less of that nonsense today. Navy diving school is certainly NOT a diploma mill, but it is a huge waste of resources to loose capable candidates. Dropout rates were higher in most of my instructor’s classes during 1950s and 60s.

It isn’t like the physical challenge was a surprise so most unfit and unmotivated sailors were weeded out first. Medicals were performed before leaving their command for the school on most people. The Navy isn’t stupid. They were pretty sure they could hack it before shipping them out from their current duty-station. You also required a recommendation from your commanding officer.

I would guess the physical, medical, and mental evaluations are done during boot camp now that diving is a primary rating and Second Class diving is an “A” school. Again, don’t confuse Navy diving school with BUD/S training where the failure rate is very high.

EVERYONE worried about “the” harassment dive, but nobody failed in my class. The academics weren’t that hard as long as you didn’t spend all your off-duty time on a bar stool. The first four weeks (5 days/week, 8 hours/day) of the ten week Second Class school was Scuba, so there was plenty of time to learn everything even if you weren’t all that smart.

... Yes, this may be true in peacetime. However, the Navy is first and formost a MILITARY service, and this would NOT hold true in war. In combat, there may be times where you have to make a dive that is so important and vital, that the risk of near-certain death is considered acceptable.

We can play "what if" all day on this, but anyone who has served knows that there is a chance they can be ordered to perform a mission so important their their life is considered secondary to the mission accomplishment. That's what I'm trying to ask of him; would he willingly sacrifice his life for the Nation? ...

Fair enough, though a bit melodramatic. One of my chamber-mates was badly hurt in Vietnam, but it had nothing to do with a diving assignment. Granted, Navy divers can be in harm’s way but they simply aren’t sacrificed for a diving mission. The nature of the work is that killing a diver will slow the progress, not get it done faster to accomplish a critical military objective.

No-doubt that US Navy divers have done some hazardous work during rescue operations including four who earned the Congressional Metal of Honor for the Squalus (SS-192) Operation and the few divers they had who worked tirelessly after the Pearl Harbor attack. However, aside from rescue there just isn’t much that is time-critical enough to put them at high risk.

The work of Navy divers is to inspect, repair, recover, and clear. Their roll in submarine rescue today has more to do with reassuring spouses and parents than reality. Even in rescue situations, divers are far more likely to endanger themselves against orders to save shipmates than because they were asked to. It isn’t like you have a platoon of divers that are easily replaced. The most time-critical military objective is to clear a navigable waterway, which pretty-much means explosives… lots of explosives.

The vast majority of Navy diver’s work is surface supplied. Recreational divers are at far greater risk. You are in constant voice and often video communications with the diving supervisor, a standby diver is dressed and ready to splash, there are several backup gas supplies on the deck plus your bailout, and a professional group of guys who will get your butt back on deck if anything goes wrong. There is a chamber if you are working at any significant depth and the dives are VERY well planned. The real dangers have more in common with construction accidents than diving.

 

[dadediver]

Hello Scubaboard, my names Nathan. I'm a 22 year old inactive PADI/SSI dive instructor who has spent the majority of the last 4 years backpacking around the world. I'm not nearly done traveling but I am also looking for a bit more stability in life. I have been looking at the possibility of joining the NAVY Dive program for a while now and feel I am finally ready to do so. I spoke with a recruiter about a year ago and he said that I definitely qualified and he could get me in, but from talking to a lot of past military members I have met, they are not to be trusted. As I don't know anyone who has actually gone through the program I'm hoping to find some answers here:
What are the realities of joining the NAVY Dive Program? What benefits have you actually received during and after your service? Is there a way to guarantee Dive School in your contract and what is the best way to go about it (getting it in writing, verifying a slot being held for you with the school, having a lawyer look over contracts)? What does your job becomes if for some reason you go through basic and can't get in? How would you describe your experiences in the program and what tips to get through would you have for someone new to it?
I do realize that this is NOT recreational diving. It's a lot of hard work and training and I am prepared for that. I am not some kid looking for a free party who needs to be told to rethink his options. I've been rethinking my options for four years. I am also fairly politically neutral, so if you are here to either talk me out of it due to government ethics or sling a bunch nationalistic pride about, Please Do Not Respond.
I am simply looking for the facts of what this program has to offer and the realities of what it can deliver.
Thank You

I would suggest that you go to Military.com and there are all of the branches on there with sub sections for the different rates/MOS. If you are serious about this, I would submerse yourself into this website. These guys are going to be able to answer your questions and concerns some what. But keep in mind that everybody has different perspectives of thier experiances. Also, I dont know where you are living, but reach out to a recruiter and if there is a dive locker close by, they could even give you a tour of thier facilties and you could talk to the divers one on one. My son actually did this.

---------- Post added February 2nd, 2014 at 09:50 AM ----------

Actually, I recommend ANY recreational diver look up those pool week videos (sometimes called "hit videos"). It was inspiring to watch the composure and skill of the divers recovering, and really gave me a better understanding of what one could/should consider in terms of situational awareness, and water comfort. Whew!

I never went through the Panama dive school, but I had a few friend that did and a son soon. This was called drown proofing. A lot of those videos' if not all are for the BUDS and combat diver programs (which are two different programs by the way). For the combat diver program, you had one week to learn open circuit which is where you see a lot of these videos. What they dont show you is the precursor to those evolutions. These evolutions are not for water comfort or situational awareness. These are stress tests. You either have it or you dont. It is to weed out the ones that stresses easy which will form into a panic action. Every evolution has a purpose.