Recreational Limits, confusing or is it just me?

[eponym]

[snip]PADI's limit for OW certification is 130 feet. Divers with only an open water cert are recommended to stay above 60; AOW gets you down to 100, and the Deep specialty gets you to 130. Note that those depths are recommendations.

And as an example of the differences among agencies, SSI's OWD course tells students that 100 fsw is the "recommended maximum recreational depth" and 130 fsw is the max depth after the Deep Diving specialty course. Plus a recommendation, similar to PADI's, that new divers limit themselves to 60 fsw until they're comfortable and controlled enough to venture deeper.

Im my OWD courses I introduce some rules of thumb for new-diver gas planning, one of which is "don't plan to dive deeper than the number of cubic feet of gas on your back."

-Bryan

 

[boulderjohn]

And as an example of the differences among agencies, SSI's OWD course tells students that 100 fsw is the "recommended maximum recreational depth" and 130 fsw is the max depth after the Deep Diving specialty course. Plus a recommendation, similar to PADI's, that new divers limit themselves to 60 fsw until they're comfortable and controlled enough to venture deeper.

PADI's actual recommendations in the OW course are not stated exactly that way, but they are essentially the same.

OW = 60 feet (or the maximum depth of your traiing)
AOW = 100 feet
Deep Specialty = 130 feet

 

[dsr30]

no.

At each certification level, your wrist mount computer is upgraded with your new limitations and you are issued cert chevrons that match. If you exceed any particular limitation, your hand will get blown off, much like arnold's schnozz in total recall. Beware the one handed diver.

lmfao!!

 

[The Chairman]

I think it's great that we are discussing limits. After all, diving is all about limits. There are several types of limits that come to mind including NDL, environmental, personal, agency and even your dive op du jour. Unfortunately, this thread is only considering the limits put on by an agency, with only Frank pointing out that there are additional factors to consider. Well, here's a news flash...

Agencies don't dive: divers do.

Who gives a fig about what NASE, PADI or any other agency says about your diving? I certainly don't. They only affect me as they affect my dive op. But really, it's still the dive op that enforces the rules they choose to enforce and not the agency. In reality, that's not the most important limit we face. I would suggest that personal, environmental and NDL limits are the ones you really should be concerned with. A dive op might say you can dive to 100 fsw, but can you really do so safely? Do you know how you react to narcosis? Do you know your SAC so you can plan your gas? How about the other environmental factors such as temperature, currents, boat traffic, etc? While you're considering all of that, how about your NDL? How does it stack up to your SAC? Do you know? Do you care? If not, then I hope that this makes you rethink your diving. If you do know, I hope it doesn't allow you to get complacent about all of them. Paying lip service to them doesn't keep you safe... or at least as safe as you can be.

So no, there are no Scuba Police. There's only YOU. YOU are responsible for your dive. Not your agency. Not your dive op. No, not even your partner. YOU and YOU alone are responsible for you surviving and making sure that your ascents equal your descents. Relying on anyone else is nothing but a Trust Me dive and that's not a smart way to dive. A diver's got to know their own limitations. You can quote me on that.

 

[Bogtrotter]

I dive to depth I feel comfortable- generally no deeper than 40M because that's what I have always been told. I think the BSAC has limits of 50M, and from what I can tell France's largest cert agency- FFESSM has rec limits at 60M, or a whopping 197ft. But then again they invented the sport. And then there's the Russian's... 'limits? what is meaning this?'

 

[beanojones]

PADI's actual recommendations in the OW course are not stated exactly that way, but they are essentially the same.

OW = 60 feet (or the maximum depth of your traiing)
AOW = 100 feet
Deep Specialty = 130 feet

Those are our training limits for conducting a class, not their diving limits.

The diving limit recommended limits have pretty much always been 60 as new open water divers, 100 feet with more training and/or experience, and the absolute limit of 130 with specific Deep Diver training.

Woops, just re-read the new book, and they eliminate the middle ground.

Open Water Diver 60 ft. (or less if the class was less.)

All recreational divers, with training and experience past Open Water, 130 ft.

The old books still have the old language. 60-100-130, and test on it.

 

[redacted]

I only found my depth limit once. Plan was for 5 minutes at 150 ft at Maricibo Deep. At 140 ft my face went numb (just like when I was a kid at the dentist) and that was my limit. I could easily see that there was nothing I needed to go 10 feet deeper for anyway. BTW, the full dive ended up running about 50 minutes after we moved up to the 50 to 70 ft range and spent another 40 minutes over Maricibo Shallows.

 

[NAM001]

I agree fully. The statements you found are the ones I found also, and it took some work. Your point of understanding #1 I believe is spot on. and with the the part of further training, I take that as AOW. One other point ... there was a comment about not exceeding your training unless youhave a professional with you. That is just what is happening when you are in trainig. You are diving beyond your current cert with a professional engaging in training for a higher certification.

My understanding is that the recommendations here differ a bit in application. From PADI's FAQ, scroll down to How Deep Can You Go -



So if I understand correctly:

1.) The 60 foot OW recommendation is to start out, with an option to advance slowly over time down to 130' with mentoring, formal course work or perhaps self-study and advancement.

2.) The 130 foot recommendation is a recommended limit if you don't have relevant tech. diving training, regardless of whether you have 50 dives or 500.

The issue of whether AOW divers ought to independently progress to 130' without further formal training I suspect is like 1.), but browsing PADI's site didn't easily turn up a good link to endorse that.

Richard.

---------- Post added July 20th, 2014 at 08:14 PM ----------

John can you give some basis for the recomended limits you list.. 60 because ???? 100 because ????? and so on. I dont disagree with your statement. I am looking for the reasons because i think we are fundimantally on the same page despite the precise use of the word limits vs recommendatons.

PADI's actual recommendations in the OW course are not stated exactly that way, but they are essentially the same.

OW = 60 feet (or the maximum depth of your traiing)
AOW = 100 feet
Deep Specialty = 130 feet

 

[KeithG]

All recreational divers, with training and experience past Open Water, 130 ft.

and to help remove my confusion, exactly what training and exactly what experience?

what? it does not say? you mean there is no definition of what this vague phrase means? no wonder I am confused.....

is 10 dives enough experience? how about 30? 300? or 600? surely 800 is enough?

if it is not quantifiable, then it is a meaningless and useless statement. it just creates confusion.

---------- Post added July 20th, 2014 at 09:48 PM ----------

I am not trying to be a dick about this (well maybe I am), just trying to make sure we all agree on a common understanding.

My belief is that PADI has 1 recreational limit: 130 feet. It has some recommendations that speak to other depth limits. It also recommends that you use a snorkel...

 

[boulderjohn]

[/COLOR]John can you give some basis for the recomended limits you list.. 60 because ???? 100 because ????? and so on. I dont disagree with your statement. I am looking for the reasons because i think we are fundimantally on the same page despite the precise use of the word limits vs recommendatons.

That is what the PADI OW course says. I am just reporting what it says in reply to an earlier post. It says that an OW certified diver is certified to 60 feet, because that is the depth limit of the OW course. In the new standards, there is a restriction based on the depth of the actual dive, but it is still just a recommendation. The course also says 100 feet with further training and experience which I shortucutted to AOW, since that is the only official training course for that purpose. The AOW course has a required deep dive, with a 100 foot maximum limit. The Deep diver course takes dives to the full maximum of 130 feet. If you read the PADI Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving, you will learn that the 130 feet limit was established long ago, and the primary reason for it is the fact that the effects of nitrogen narcosis become more pronounced after that depth.

and to help remove my confusion, exactly what training and exactly what experience?

what? it does not say? you mean there is no definition of what this vague phrase means? no wonder I am confused.....

is 10 dives enough experience? how about 30? 300? or 600? surely 800 is enough?

if it is not quantifiable, then it is a meaningless and useless statement. it just creates confusion.

It is clear that this idea that we give the diver enough information to help them make informed decisions about their ability to deal with different situations. It is clear that is not working for you. Since you apparently need someone to tell you what to do in your situation, I suggest you have a meeting with a professional who can evaluate your abilities and tell you what you can do. As time goes by, you can meet with that individual, have him or her re-evaluate your growing skills, and tell you what you can do. If you can come to where I live and dive, I will be happy to help you with this.