Recreational OW diving with long hoses (or the 'usual' r/h hose routing) ...

[roydude]

In a 'recreational diving open water' situation, some of us with our own kit (and therefore our own say on how it's configured) have:
1. Hog loops,
2. Octopus on a very long hose, or
3. Octopus routed under the right arm (almost standard practice for us PADI divers).

On the subject of the long hoses (hog or loooong occy hose): To me this seems to have way more risk than benefit in recreational OW. Here's why ...

If an OOA diver takes the long hose (whether that's primary or octopus) then to me this adds a serious risk. An OOA diver will usually be a tad stressed at the very least. He may just want to be on the surface as quickly as possible, regardless of training (it happens!).

So to put that another way: someone holding onto you by a 7' hose is now ascending at an unsafe speed and trying to drag you with him :shocked2: ! I can't think of a worse situation for the donor - you can't reach him to purge his bcd / calm him down / get control of the situation, all you can do is dump air and try to slow him down (hoping he doesn't rip your hose off in the process)!

I know there's an argument that a long hose gives people room to move etc..., but I route my occy from the left, over the top of my shoulder flush with my chest down the side of my LP hose with the 2nd stage attached to my bcd waistbelt (photo's to follow). I don't need to faff about moving my arm to donate it and it's the right way up for the OOA diver, giving them the full (standard) length of the hose. The OOA diver just pulls it and sticks in in their mouth. If I need it for some reason I just do the same with a little twist. The twist doesn't matter to me since the hose is coming from just behind my head and just sits in an 'C' shape on my chest. It's very easy for me to use (actually it's so comfortable that I'm considering just using it and tucking the primary away for me to switch to in case of an OOA situation).

(... and that's my argument against routing the occy under the right arm! )

Additionally, routed like this the OOA diver and I have lots of room when facing each other and the OOA diver can very comfortably parallel swim on my left (giving them unobstructed access to their LP hose, and me reachable access to their right shoulder dump if need be). I know this, because I've done it. Very stress free, I remain in control of us, we both have lots of room and I can easily reach the OOA diver if need be.

What do you think? If you're diving one of those configurations - what's your reasoning?

As always, I am open to being wrong here, but I really wanted to open the discussion up (especially about long hoses - r/h occy's have perhaps been discussed aplenty).

 

[Bellaco]

The person has to close enough to you so that you can pass them the second stage even when donating the primary long hose. If the OOA diver looks that panicked and you feel they are at risk for shooting to the surface then just grab their bc and keep them facing you at arms length while ascending. There is no rule to say you have to give them all 7 feet of slack, but its nice to have it there when its needed.

 

[spectrum]

I also run my alternate on the left hanging from a LH shoulder D-ring. I agree it presents well to a buddy either face to face or to swiming to your left. It works fine for me too. With the 36-40 inch hose they stay at a manageable distance but everyone has adequate space. For divers not in confined spaces IMO this meets all of the needs without wrapping hose around ones self.

I agree that sharing air via a long hose with random divers can be foolhardy.

I will concede that it leaves on the table the option of bobbing for the alternate and makes it more preferable to donate the alternate as opposed to the "highly desirable working regulator that is in your mouth". Nevertheless if my primary is snatched getting onto my alternate is no big deal while we sort things out.

I'll also add that some of my diving is with a double hose regulator and this makes for a common configuration.

Nothing is perfect, pick something, train with it and brief your buddies.

Pete

 

[TSandM]

I would agree that having a panicked diver at the end of a 7' hose and doing a ballistic missile impression would be bad. But how did they get to the end of the 7' hose? If I donate my primary, the initial length they get is very little more than a standard 40" octo hose (if at all); they won't get any more until or unless I specifically deploy the rest. Honestly, sharing gas with a panicked diver who is intent on reaching the surface is bad news, although at the very least, he's lost the ability to power inflate, so he is only swimming, and if I dump my rig, I'm going to be hard to drag up.

I really like the wrapped hose for several reasons other than just the ability to share gas with 7' of slack. I like the fact that the hose stays very close to my body, and is difficult to catch on anything. It's also more streamlined for swimming. I really like the bungied backup under my chin, because to be completely honest, I have to admit I've used it to save MYSELF far more than I've had to use the long hose for anything. It's great if you find yourself unexpectedly underwater, to have that backup right where you know it is.

To me, the ONLY argument against the long hose setup is the one that points out that the donor is briefly without a regulator (thus potentially creating a second panicky person). But no one should be so uncomfortable without a reg in their mouth that they can't calmly switch to their backup. After all, the donor is theoretically unstressed at the time of donation.

 

[SlvrDragon50]

Why would you be bolting to the surface if they have your air source? And to get your primary they have to be within arms reach.

I do the same as TSandM and have my octo on a bungee right below my chin.

 

[NAM001]

It sounds like his a choice of,,, would you rather have a nut job in your face or 5-7 ft away from you? you cant save someone from then selves,,, you can only help them to save themselves.

 

[Nemrod]

There are essentially two camps, schools of thought, and nothing in this thread will change that:

1. Breath the short hose (22 to 28 inches), over the right shoulder, donate the longer hose (36 to 42 inches) which is generally routed under the right arm and positioned somewhere in the chest area. This is the TRADITIONAL and most common method for open water sport divers. The regulator to be donated is usually referred to as the octopus second stage. It is often yellow and may not be the same type of second stage as the main second stage.

2. Breath the long hose, called the primary, (commonly 36", 40", 60" and 84") which is routed under the right arm or is wrapped around the body going under the arm and around behind the neck/head and around to the mouth. The secondary is on a shorter hose (26" give or take) routed over the right shoulder and it is usually but not always necklaced under the chin. The donating diver gives up the long hose primary to the OOA diver and switches to the secondary necklaced regulator. This is the method now favored by divers who frequent overhead environments because it allows, at least with the longer 60 and 84 inches hoses, single file swimming through narrow areas and is often adapted to open water environments with the shorter length 36 to 40 inch hoses. Usually, but not always, the two second stages are identical and rarely one sports yellow plumage.

In choice (2) above, a right angle or ball swivel is often used on the primary with the shorter 36 and 40 inch hoses to allow comfortable positioning of the second stage, not needed by the more direct presentation afforded by the 60 and 84 inch hoses passing around the head and exiting straight to the mouth. In choice (1) a similar swivel may be used on the octopus second stage to again allow it to be twisted about for better presentation to the OOA diver.

There are also those who use double hose regulators who usually present a more traditional "octopus" second usually on a 36 to 40 inch hose routed under the right arm and up to the chest area.

And finally, the most bizarre of the scuba birds, the diver with those funky hybrid inflator and regulator thingy like an Air II. I am not sure what they do, some try to donate the Air II while others switch to the Air II (Air Source, etc.) and donate the primary they where breathing. Sometimes they get so confused both divers drown while trying to figure out which thing they should put in each others mouth.

Of course, if you get really, uh, wrapped up in the hose discussion and what to do with all of them, there is always buddy breathing and for that there need only be one hose and if you are solo diving then you needn't concern yourself even with that because who would you BB with? Yourself?

I just breath the twin hose and y'all all can figure all the rest out, if you get desperate for air, I can hand you off my Air Buddy special high performance nitrox version. But I am not guaranteeing positive results.

N

 

[rhwestfall]

if you don't release the loop under the waist point (whatever it is "fixed" to), then you basically have that 40" hoes that is "standard". Throughout the process, you evaluate the situation while in a conventional f-t-f configuration with the "standard" grip on their BC. If all seems well, and they are comfortable, you can deploy additional hose to allow for an almost "on their own" progression, be it a horizontal or vertical direction.

Not much of a difference.....

 

[roydude]

Why would you be bolting to the surface if they have your air source? And to get your primary they have to be within arms reach.

You wouldn't be bolting to the surface, they would / might. Even if it's not a 'bolt', people often just ascend way too quickly, even if they seem 'calm' when getting your alternate air souce.

I do the same as TSandM and have my octo on a bungee right below my chin.[\QUOTE]


That's handy in a tight spot like a cave or wreck where your arms might be restricted (which is where that config comes from) but in open water I prefer the octopus to be on the front of my waist - feels like less clutter and it's right beside my left hand always.

It sounds like his a choice of,,, would you rather have a nut job in your face or 5-7 ft away from you?

If that nut job is holding my regulator ... I'd rather have him close.

There are essentially two camps ... donate the longer hose (36 to 42 inches) which is generally routed under the right arm and positioned somewhere in the chest area.

Routing the short octo hose under your right arm is one of my pet peeves. Route it over the left arm and all the disadvantages of a shorter hose vanish.

I really like the wrapped hose for several reasons other than just the ability to share gas with 7' of slack. I like the fact that the hose stays very close to my body, and is difficult to catch on anything. It's also more streamlined for swimming.

+1 to this - I really like the streamlining aspect of it I must confess.

 

[616fun]

First - a panicked diver won't be getting my reg. it just puts yourself in harms way. I donated to a recreational diver low on air last weekend. We identified his gas was low, made the switch before he got nervous and I placed him securely in my left side with a hand on his arm at all times. We ascended from 95' to 30 ft and put him back on his gas, as he had enough at shallow depths to complete his dive. Having shared air on a 40" hose would have sucked. We did a nice slow ascent and both divers were comfortable, with normal body positions in the water. There was no hurry to ascend and we were able to do a nice gradual ascent.

Upon surfacing I said two things:

1. I doubt you'll make fun of my big @$$ tanks again (he's constantly poking fun of my double 108s)

2. Next time you need to plan your gas better.

Points here are if you allow the situation to escalate to panic, you've missed all the warning signs and symptoms that come prior to the freaking out. Deal with it well before stress hits the diver and you are all good.