Redundant Bouancy

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"Nemrod, I envy you with your shorty diving in those warm waters Come up to Canada in January some time for an ice dive heee"

Well, why? What is there to see but ice? LOL. N
 
You know, I'm pretty much on Nemrod's side of this. Has anyone ever thought of doing a buoyancy check on a near-empty tank? You should be neutral at 500 psig at the water's surface. That would make you a bit heavy on a full tank, but not so heavy that you cannot swim up from just about anywhere (with your fins on, of course).

Having started diving before BCs (in cold Oregon water, with a 1/4 inch full wet suit), and having helped in the development of BCs, I now see that this tool is being abused. Buoyancy compensation is just that, compensation for the loss of buoyancy of the wet suit. But now, even instructors teach being overweighted so that it is not necessary to swim down to the bottom. Simply deflate the BC and down you go.

The emergency situation is not the loss of the BC's ability to hold air, but the situation where the diver is dependent upon the BC holding air to stay out of on emergency. If the diver is weighted correctly, loss of the BC should not be an emergercy, just an inconvenience.

When the AtPak first arrived on the scene in the 1970s, there was a death in Clear Lake, Oregon when a diver descended from a boat with his air turned off. He couldn't inflate his BC, and went straight to the bottom in 90 feet of 37 degree F water, with a non-functioning BC and regulator. That diver was highly overweighted too (weighted for salt water in a fresh water lake, and usually heavy in salt water). That is an emergency situation which would have justified ditching the entire scuba unit, but for some reason that did not happen either.

In short, you should never be in a situation where loss of the BC is an emergency. This is simply an aid to compensate for the loss of buoyance of your diving suit (usually a wet suit, as dry suits now have power inflation and don't loose buoyancy).

Many moons ago, when I was in high school, our dive club took a week-long trip to Thetis Island, BC. While there, a missionary ship came in with a fishing net around one of its two props. They asked if we could cut it off. My dive buddy and I were eager to help, and (after ensuring that there was no way they would start their engines) dove in the docks to cut the netting off. What we didn't know was that there was four-inch diameter rope around this netting too. So we hacked away with our dive knives. I found out that day why serrated edges are better than straight edges for some things; the straight edge of my knife, though sharp, would not cut that rope. We finally hacked through the last rope and netting, and were quickly dragged to the bottom by the weight of the netting and rope. It was a pile on the bottom about four feet in diameter. But we were determined to lift that off the bottom, and the two of us swam that glob of net and rope to the surface, about twenty feet above. It took an extreme amount of effort, as it probably weighed 35 pounds underwater (over a hundred on the dock). But we got it up there where about four people pulled it out of the water.

What I'm now seeing is that divers are weighting themselves almost this badly as a normal practice for a dive, and depending upon their 60 pounds of buoyancy in the BC to get off the bottom. If the BC fails, this is like lifting that net-rope mess we had at Thetis Island in 1963 off the bottom and to the surface. I can see how that would be an emergency, but it is caused by a fundamental lack of understanding of the physics of diving.

Concerning "redundent" buoyancy in the form of a lift bag, I think it is foolish. First, you already have "redundant buoyancy" by ditching weights the wet suit's buoyancy (what there is of it--in salt water, there is some), or the lack of the weights to allow a controled, swimming ascent. "But weights are expensive, and I don't want to loose them" some might say. Well, carrying around another piece of equipment is also expensive, in time, effort, and the need to care for it. Putting air in a lift bag raises the very real risk of a buoyant, out-of-control ascent that is faster than currently recommended by the instructional agencies. Having it attached to you at the time is dangerous too.

You might want to practice this loss of BC buoyancy, after doing a buoyance check described above and becoming properly weighted, by going down and swimming to the surface sans air in the BC. It's really not that difficult for a correctly weighted diver.

John
Ex-NAUI Instructor #2710
 
Well, I reckon I'll stick my neck out to get flamed here, but I dive a dual bladder BC. Usual rig is a st 120, a 19 pony, on an IQ pack with an AL back plate and some custom AL STAs that I had milled out. Around 15 lbs of lead and a crushed neoprene DUI. My pony is run to one bladder and my main to the other. Probably never need it, and I have 100 different options come time that some really angry quill back decides to mate with my primary bladder, but its there if I need it. The main thing here, is you have to remember that were talking SOLO diving, all alone no buddies no help. Like I said I'll probably never need it, but it makes me comfortable knowing that I have virtually redundant everything when I'm alone. I think that you really have to decide what makes you comfortable. When your comfortable, you make everything so much easier. (not comfortable like an easy boy chair) I wouldn't try and sell anyone a dual bladder, but for me it makes me feel better, red air reduntant lift reduntant mask, the only thing I don't have is fins, that right there is where I draw the line.
 
curtmdavis,

Don't feel badly about your solution. We started in different eras. To me, redundant buoyance has always been dropping my weight belt (yes, I still dive a weight belt). My BC is only for buoyancy compensation, and I can use it in emergencies. I have a CO2 inflator in my BC (a front mount I call the Para-Sea BC, which is my own design), so you could say that this is also redundant buoyancy. So with tank inflation, the CO2 cartridge, and my weight belt, I guess you could say I am triple-redundant:wink:

SeaRat
 
LenC:
I am personally not a fan of using a dry suit as a bouyancy device.
As a backup bouyance device? Why not?
 
John C. Ratliff:
.. ..So with tank inflation, the CO2 cartridge, and my weight belt, I guess you could say I am triple-redundant:wink:...

SeaRat

Not sure. you have one bladder with a limited number of valves. Lets say the bladder is punctured/ripped open. (without going into how one can still manage by positioning the body). You have no more buoyancy device.....
 
I guess another way to look at it is, how you want to end up after aborting your dive. You could drop lead and pop to the top like a cork, same possibility for the lift bag, dry suit, while I use mine for a small amount of buoyancy change, i really wouldn't want to ride that balloon to the top. (can be difficult to vent if to much air is used, trapped in feet etc.) Redundant whatever, air bladder, extra BC in leg pocket, extension ladder, what have you, allows a definite controlled accent, deco stop and all the other good things in life. Of course when your diving with a buddy, these things all become a mute point, but when I'm solo, I'm thinking about carrying an extension ladder.........
 
curtmdavis:
I guess another way to look at it is, how you want to end up after aborting your dive. You could drop lead and pop to the top like a cork, same possibility for the lift bag,

You're not supposed to ride the bag to the top. You shoot the bag and wind you way up, or tie it to a wreck and use it like an anchor line. The best thing is to dive a rig you can swim to the surface.
 
I've heard a nice thing today from my instructor, I think he has a point, use a 100 pound lift bag, its huge so others can spot you in the water and its easy to deploy.

You can use it as a bouyancy device (which is a bad idea, especially with something that big) or use it with a safety reel.

Extract the amount of line you need from your reel BEFORE connecting it to the lift bag, and let it ride to the surface..

Combined with ties on your safety reel every 10 feet, its almost fool proof in my opinion. lets say you want to be at 40', just extract 40', tie, deploy, hold.

What could be better than that? (other than service your equipment and check it frequently enough to avoid it)

I know a lift bag is sometimes useless at the surface, so inflate your smb, drop weights and relax, if you can drop your weights, get a bigger smb..
 
SmileMon:
Extract the amount of line you need from your reel BEFORE connecting it to the lift bag, and let it ride to the surface...

My instructor would disagree. You could get tangled in all that line. What's the point of this?
 

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