Regulator servicing

[redacted]

Does anyone else notice the humor in most of these posts? "regs servicing is not rocket science..." "...idiots at the LDS dont know how to service a reg" "....take a simple class from the manufacturer and they think they know everything..." "I'll just DIY next time..." Ok hold on now! If these pasty handed idiots do this for a living after being "trained" by the manufacturers and goof up, what makes you think that you can do it yourself without the training and tools? Ive sat through some regulator classes, some good, some less than good (Oceanic on their Posideon copy "...if the valve is working, don't mess with it! Its too easy to screw up!") in the past couple of years. I also used to work on regulators in the aerospace industry for several years so regulator design and function is not new to me. Guess which regs give me the hardest times to get set... the ones where the owners thought they would save money and DIY. I had one reg come in with completely wrong orings installed, pieces completely bent, nothing tightened... and they said "I dunno, it worked fine the last time I used it...no I didnt open it up..."

People are also complaining about the cost of having your regs serviced. The LDS around here charges $30 a stage. Wow thats $90 plus parts on maybe a $300 reg... fine now lets look at what is needed... first being a retail center, rent is not cheap, electricity, ya need a compressor too, hard to test a reg with no air!, tools (Ive spoke with some scary LDS owners at DEMA "yea these specialty tools are a rip off, I just use different size wooden sticks I buy at the hardware store...") which the cost add up quick, just look at scubatools.com if you don't believe me. Oh yeah the tech, kinda nice to pay him. No given most LDS dont pay employees crap in the way of wages, but how long do you think it takes to service a reg? First you need to hook up the rig, check the IP, check the crack pressure on both 2nd stages, log it all, note hose routing and other assembled doo-dads on the reg, disassemble, ultrasonic, rinse, and then reassemble all three stages. After all three stages are put back together, each stage must be retested and adjusted. Don't forget about the oh so popular paperwork, checking inventory, ordering parts, blah blah blah. Now can you do it yourself, sure! Can you save some money,(ignoring initial investment of tools) sure, but don't forget you still need to buy the parts kits (sometimes extra parts that do not come in the kits too) so the only place you will save money is the labor. How much is your time worth?

From the other side of the table:

If you think you may be a "pasty handed idiot" do not try servicing your own reg. (But you could check around to see if an LDS would hire you so you can get some practice before you try your own. ) If changing a tire is as far as you want to go with your car, then just stick with the simple stuff like maybe changing out a hose. If you would not think of doing your own brake job or rebuilding carburator, then leave the inside of your regs to a competent pro. I'm sure there are DIY horror stories. I know of an LDS that will sell a diver parts if they insist. And then he'll sell them a new reg when they screw it up so badly it can't be repaired. But still, finding a pro you can trust may be quite a challenge. If you are not confident of the work done by your local guy, try one of the larger mail-order centers. They can not afford to screw up - too much bad publicity.

$30 per stage is a bit high but reasonable for a good thorough job. But you can find better prices. The problem is that regardless of price, the thoroughness of the job can be a big variable. I've seen regs just out of service that had more green in the 1st stage than than Bill Gates's wallet. How do you know your tech didn't just do a vacuum test and check IP and cracking pressure, wipe it all down with some Armour All. And slip it into the done bin. <Most regulators can easily go 2 or more years between a thorough service. The tech just decided he would take a small risk with your dive trips for the next year. It happens. Just because you had to wait 5 weeks and got a small bag of old parts back doesn't mean it didn't happen to you.

You only need a retail center and much of that other stuff because most mfgrs are not going to allow access to parts and documentation unless you have it. (But they do not even require them to have a torque wrench! ) And most LDSs will refuse to sell you parts. (And many will lie about the reason just to keep in practice. In most cases, it is not their insurance company or their dealer agreement. They want your $$$.)


The service that David P describes is thorough, and if done right will take an hour or more. (As a DIYer, that job would take me 2 to 4 hours. With a newly acquired used reg, it may take a week of soaking and trying just to get it disassembled without damage.) I might not have gone the DIY route had I been able to get that kind of service. But after three different shops screwed up my regs, I gave up on them and put a little money and lots of time into being self sufficient. If you don't think it is worth your time, then don't do it. But it can also be enjoyable. Sometimes I will tear a reg down, clean, inspect, lube, reassemble and tune it more for fun than necessity.

YMMV

 

[redacted]

I bought my regs new and as long as I get them serviced annually the parts are free. For what I pay for service, it's worth it to me. I could let them slide longer but would then have to pay for parts forever. In the long run I save money and have regulators I am comfortable with.

If you are going to have someone service your regulator annually then that is the smart and least expensive (in the long run) way to go if you can get competent service.

 

[redacted]

Despite my concerns, to date, I've always had my reg serviced annually and professionally.

"What should I do with my LIFETIME WARRANTEED '84 Oceanic then?" I asked. "You told me you didn't want to work on it because it was too old and the parts were hard to find."

"Retire it." That was his answer. So much for the Lifetime Warranty (technically expired now, since I'm not getting the annual and will retire it, at least until I get the tools and some knowledge." I'll continue to dive my USD Legend LX and will continue to have it serviced by the LDS, but i will also take it in the pool and test it out myself after I get it back. Lemme tellya, they better not screw up again.

Why don't you post this over in the Oceanic forum and see if they will step up and demonstrate why it is called a LIFETIME warrenty. I beleive Scubapro replaces unrepairable/unservicable older regs that are still undwer warrenty with new one and you can keep on going. You have paid for it. How long are you planning on living.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If changing a tire is as far as you want to go with your car, then just stick with the simple stuff like maybe changing out a hose. If you would not think of doing your own brake job or rebuilding carburator, then leave the inside of your regs to a competent pro.

Na...I used to work on my own cars but, cars have changed, the equipment required has changed and I'm not interested in learning or doing any of it...aside from the road side survival stuff. I still do my own regs. Regs are way simpler, you don't need any conputers and you don't need to crawl under a car and try to work in places that are hard to reach and see..

I'm sure there are DIY horror stories. I know of an LDS that will sell a diver parts if they insist. And then he'll sell them a new reg when they screw it up so badly it can't be repaired. But still, finding a pro you can trust may be quite a challenge. If you are not confident of the work done by your local guy, try one of the larger mail-order centers. They can not afford to screw up - too much bad publicity.

While I do my own, I definately know people I would trust to do them for me. Though they aren't in one of my local shops, I could ship it to them if I wanted.

You only need a retail center and much of that other stuff because most mfgrs are not going to allow access to parts and documentation unless you have it. (But they do not even require them to have a torque wrench! ) And most LDSs will refuse to sell you parts. (And many will lie about the reason just to keep in practice. In most cases, it is not their insurance company or their dealer agreement. They want your $$$.)

I have pointed this out MANY times but what's wrong with once more?...Having owned a dive shop and been a dealer for several manufacturers and having purchased insurance through several different companies, I have NEVER seen an insurance policy or dealer agreement that forbid the sales of parts or service manuals. Such a thing may exist somepleace but I haven't seen it.

The service that David P describes is thorough, and if done right will take an hour or more. (As a DIYer, that job would take me 2 to 4 hours. With a newly acquired used reg, it may take a week of soaking and trying just to get it disassembled without damage.) I might not have gone the DIY route had I been able to get that kind of service. But after three different shops screwed up my regs, I gave up on them and put a little money and lots of time into being self sufficient. If you don't think it is worth your time, then don't do it. But it can also be enjoyable. Sometimes I will tear a reg down, clean, inspect, lube, reassemble and tune it more for fun than necessity.

YMMV

Cleaning can take some time but I mostly dive fresh water and it's a snap. Plus, you can dump parts in the cleaner and go do something else rather than sit there and watch them. LOL

Disassembly, swapping parts, assembly and testing can all be done pretty quick. There just isn't much to it.

 

[stevewirl]

iv had mares , oceanic , and coltry regs before and was never impressed . iv 3 sets of scuba pro now and hav never had a prob with then im very happy

as far as technology is concerned in the last 12 years im diving and the 10 before that that my father was diving . i hav seen twin hose rigs go and come back in the form as ccr's . the advent of cold water regs . balaanced and unbalanced and the smaller changes to interior parts of the regs with the advent and widespread use of hardend plastics ..

loads of minor changes but when you add them all together its alot .

and for the unbelivers amoungst you . i remember having to help my father with a stencil to cut neopreen to make his own suit . as in ireland they where not widely available .

 

[in_cavediver]

Does anyone else notice the humor in most of these posts? "regs servicing is not rocket science..." "...idiots at the LDS dont know how to service a reg" "....take a simple class from the manufacturer and they think they know everything..." "I'll just DIY next time..." Ok hold on now! If these pasty handed idiots do this for a living after being "trained" by the manufacturers and goof up, what makes you think that you can do it yourself without the training and tools? Ive sat through some regulator classes, some good, some less than good (Oceanic on their Posideon copy "...if the valve is working, don't mess with it! Its too easy to screw up!") in the past couple of years. I also used to work on regulators in the aerospace industry for several years so regulator design and function is not new to me. Guess which regs give me the hardest times to get set... the ones where the owners thought they would save money and DIY. I had one reg come in with completely wrong orings installed, pieces completely bent, nothing tightened... and they said "I dunno, it worked fine the last time I used it...no I didnt open it up..."

People are also complaining about the cost of having your regs serviced. The LDS around here charges $30 a stage. Wow thats $90 plus parts on maybe a $300 reg... fine now lets look at what is needed... first being a retail center, rent is not cheap, electricity, ya need a compressor too, hard to test a reg with no air!, tools (Ive spoke with some scary LDS owners at DEMA "yea these specialty tools are a rip off, I just use different size wooden sticks I buy at the hardware store...") which the cost add up quick, just look at scubatools.com if you don't believe me. Oh yeah the tech, kinda nice to pay him. No given most LDS dont pay employees crap in the way of wages, but how long do you think it takes to service a reg? First you need to hook up the rig, check the IP, check the crack pressure on both 2nd stages, log it all, note hose routing and other assembled doo-dads on the reg, disassemble, ultrasonic, rinse, and then reassemble all three stages. After all three stages are put back together, each stage must be retested and adjusted. Don't forget about the oh so popular paperwork, checking inventory, ordering parts, blah blah blah. Now can you do it yourself, sure! Can you save some money,(ignoring initial investment of tools) sure, but don't forget you still need to buy the parts kits (sometimes extra parts that do not come in the kits too) so the only place you will save money is the labor. How much is your time worth?

David, what you describe is excellent service, which may or may not always happen. Ignoring that, lets look at it from a different angle. Economy of scale. I have 8 regs. For that $30 a stage, its looking at hair under $500 a year for a tech to service them. Now, for me, I can do two or three at a time, I have the tools (even the 'unavailable' ones). What prevents me from doing what you describe? Its the same reason I do VIP's and O2 cleaning.

Not everyone is so 'ill equipped' to do a competent job. Also, not everyone is so ill equipped to know when a device is acting up and when to service it.

Lastly, what my time is worth. I personally don't want to lose a reg for a couple weeks to let a shop 'service' it for me. Those weeks are worth something to me.

I agree with M. Ferrara, its a racket and I won't support a company who plays those games.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Disassembly, swapping parts, assembly and testing can all be done pretty quick. There just isn't much to it.

And it is fun too. This extends the hobby beyond just diving, but the logistics behind it too so to speak. All involving...

And like In-Cave diver mentions, with more than about 5-6 regs, it becomes more economical to do it yourself

 

[RadRob]

First of all, I have been to these "classes" and they SUCK. As a prior fiber optic engineer, this seems to be easy as changing the batteries in a remote control. I was also told to retire a set of regs, my favorite regs. Not gonna happen. The only reason took mine in was at my father-in-laws offer to pay. One set after parts was $98! For a simple overhaul that would take very little time, and when the parts came back, none were in bad shape as I dived another set all last year so the ones in this set were still new (it took 2 and a half weeks for them to do it). I was still told they were bad and needed to be changed. BULL. the parts I got back were in the same shape as when I gave it to them. They charged for parts not needed. Tanks are another story as laws her require annual checks and hydros every 10 years or so.

As I said, your life, your decision. You make the call.

Along with this, do all shops return the parts now? Back a few years they would let you see the old parts but would not let you have them back. Safety reasons they all said. To me, they just didn't want you to have the parts to DIY next time. All money driven.

Take an old reg apart and see if you can get it back together. You will find it isn't as hard as others would like you to believe. Shops here, of course, need to make money, and that's natural, but this certainly is something you can do.

 

[Island Don]

So, let's assume one is careful, likes to actually read instructions/manuals, and has driven more miles in vehicles whose brakes they have personally repaired/replaced/rebuilt than they can estimate.

How would such a person go about learning to service their own regulators? Sounds like at least three physical things need to be obtained:
1) Manuals
2) Parts
3) Tools

Do you DIY folks get these from your LDS? Online? Direct from manfacturer?

 

[RadRob]

So, let's assume one is careful, likes to actually read instructions/manuals, and has driven more miles in vehicles whose brakes they have personally repaired/replaced/rebuilt than they can estimate.

How would such a person go about learning to service their own regulators? Sounds like at least three physical things need to be obtained:
1) Manuals
2) Parts
3) Tools

Do you DIY folks get these from your LDS? Online? Direct from manfacturer?

We are men(mostly) we dont need no stinkin manuals (jokin)
We probably have most of the tools needed (special tools off internet)
many shops sell rebuild kits still. (others on internet or from manufacturer)

Smooth talking or friendly repport with shop tech's you trust or friends who have been doing this already.