Related to Sexism in Diving

[Marie13]

Halcyon offers its webbing in pink, if a female tech diver wants some color.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Except that is NOT what they are doing. They are assuming that women want to dive to a lower level then men. What do you make of their comment "Female fins so that a recreational diver..." "I am a female diver who is not going to be towing around big sets of doubles and 14 stages..."

THIS is what is sparking the outrage at least for me and other female technical divers that I know. The assumption that because I am female my gear doesn't need to be as effective or efficient. Which is BS.

I appreciate a company devoting time and resources to a line of gear that better fits women. Our end needs are the same, we're just shaped differently!

LOL.. women are smaller and weaker than men. Jet fins suck, they have uncomfortable footpockets and are not as efficient as some other fins. They are heavy and require a good bit of effort and muscle to use them. Not the best fins for me and I bet for a lot of women too.

If they are trying to make fins that perform well, utilize a more narrow and /or ergonomic foot pocket AND may have some aesthetic aspect that appeal to the women, I have a hard time viewing that in a negative light. As I recall, in one reference anyway) that they were thinking about women who are diving under their system with a "recreational" type of mindset and are not diving with 3 or 4 tanks. I didn't pick up on the premise that this female gear was inferior or less efficient.

 

[lv2dive]

And I bought a pink camo wing for my *boyfriend* bc he liked it - it wasn't limited to women bc Halcyon to my knowledge is focused on creating kit that works for the team.. except of course personal items like drysuits.

Halcyon offers its webbing in pink, if a female tech diver wants some color.

 

[lv2dive]

This. I started out as a recreational diver with no intentions of moving to tech or cave. I'm glad when I started with GUE I "began with the end in mind" (even though I didn't actually have the end in mind!) and started with a bp/w and wing and jets bc it was a whole lot easier than having to learn kit as I progressed.

Except that is NOT what they are doing. They are assuming that women want to dive to a lower level then men. What do you make of their comment "Female fins so that a recreational diver..." "I am a female diver who is not going to be towing around big sets of doubles and 14 stages..."

THIS is what is sparking the outrage at least for me and other female technical divers that I know. The assumption that because I am female my gear doesn't need to be as effective or efficient. Which is BS.

I appreciate a company devoting time and resources to a line of gear that better fits women. Our end needs are the same, we're just shaped differently!

 

[drrich2]

It occurs to me the term 'sexy' in our culture is sometimes used to indicate stylish/cool/neat/hot, rather than just 'raising sex appeal.' I don't know what the speaker originally had in mind to communicate with the term. Oddly enough, it made me think of a conversation I read about between Steve Jobs and Tim Cook (of Apple), which indicated a strong esteem for style/detail/attention-to-aesthetics (the example was a knife who's great look was sabotaged by glue beads where the blade was set into the handle). Evidently Jobs didn't like 'sloppy looking,' even a little.

I wonder to what extent this aesthetic mindset manifests differently as a general trend with female vs. male divers? Not an absolute difference (I figure there are female slobs, and some guys are real G.Q., primp, etc...).

Outside of diving, I see it at home arguing with my wife over various things. What I wear, what our toddler wears or her hair going out, how my wife feels about going out if she's not 'put together,' if I use the term correctly. And when I look at her, and in my best self-centered apathetic-to-external-concerns male mindset, ask 'So what?,' she gets mad. And my wife's not all that 'fu-fu.'

My point is, there may be a substantial subset of the female diver demographic who are more style conscious to the point whether they embrace a technique of diving or buy a type of gear could be affected. An agency that wants to recruit more of that demographic might consider making style more of a design issue.

On the Apple example, perhaps some of you have seen forums elsewhere where users lament they don't need the iMac or iPhone to be slightly thinner yet again, they want more functional power.

Obviously 'women' on the whole don't want functional compromise or to be written off as fashionistas just trying to ramp up their sex appeal.

Richard.

 

[Bubblesong]

Marketers do this "image over functional" to men too: how top shelf are those gadgets at the Sharper Image store? Or the fact that they sell huge macho dive knives to newbies, when experienced divers know they are not practical, and also know not to strap them to the hard to reach part of leg.

 

[Peter69_56]

I watched that video and was highly amused at two guys going on like that. Sheez. If a guy said stuff like that to me in person, I'd laugh at him, and then he'd get slapped if he kept on with that.

The only "feminine" color I've got is purple trim on my drysuit. I had to go custom anyway, since neither drysuits nor wetsuits are made for short and round gals. As for expensive, you're already shelling out $$ buying a drysuit, anyway. I was able to go the custom route for only $150 more (USIA).

ETA: I did find this highly odd coming from a DIR group.

Was it a quality custom? My wife needs a 5 mm and we cannot find anything to fit and after 3 custom suits which we gave away are atill looking. We have found that most of the custom builds are of cheap standard neoprene and no one seems to have quality stretch neoprene. I personally dont care the cost as long as its quality and actually fits properly.

 

[Bubblesong]

Similarly, the same guys that just have to wear that thong speedo, are not likely to inspire confidence in fellow divers anyway. Although fashion follows women inevitably,
We don't have to look like Easter Eggs, which would be distracting and not really confidence inspiring for the next generation of female divers. I would absolutely look like an Easter Egg in these advertised skins, by a woman retailer no less:

 

[Bubblesong]

Was it a quality custom? My wife needs a 5 mm and we cannot find anything to fit and after 3 custom suits which we gave away are atill looking. We have found that most of the custom builds are of cheap standard neoprene and no one seems to have quality stretch neoprene. I personally dont care the cost as long as its quality and actually fits properly.

Thank you for this tip, I am fated to go custom, but will make sure I look at stretch neoprene.

 

[RainPilot]

Except that is NOT what they are doing. They are assuming that women want to dive to a lower level then men. What do you make of their comment "Female fins so that a recreational diver..." "I am a female diver who is not going to be towing around big sets of doubles and 14 stages..."

THIS is what is sparking the outrage at least for me and other female technical divers that I know. The assumption that because I am female my gear doesn't need to be as effective or efficient. Which is BS.

I appreciate a company devoting time and resources to a line of gear that better fits women. Our end needs are the same, we're just shaped differently!

I think, to give AG the benefit of the doubt for a second, he does suffer from "foot-in-mouth" disease quite often. In the bolded part above, I took his meaning to be:
" A female recreational diver, who doesn't want to drag along a bunch of stages etc should have equipment available to her that matches what she wants to do."

The unspoken part is that those (male and female) who want to drag all the stages along already have all this gear available so no need to mention them.

One of UTD's 15 Instructor Trainers worldwide is Marine Owen, she is 5'5" and probably 90 lbs soaking wet. She is full trimix, cave etc etc and AG knows her well. He also knows she would kick his ass if he tried to say she doesn't really want to do "tech stuff"