Request for information not covered in any course

[KathyV]

A thing that I find concerning is this scheme boats in the US and some other parts of the world have of dropping anchor and using the static boat, and worse anchor line, as a base for dive operations. Maybe it is our tides, or the lower limits of no of divers per boat, but that is just never done in the U.K. The boat is always available to pick up a diver in distress, divers on a dive make no assumptions about where the boat is, you surface under a DSMB and wait to be collected.

Say a rescue takes place with one of these anchored dive boats, a diver is in the surface with an unconscious casualty 100m away, what is supposed to happen?

My experiences in different parts of the world - but certainly not all of them! Is that when you are on a drift dive you surface and wait to be picked up. Either by the dive boat, or if you are on a liveaboard, by a panga (RIB).

In situations with little current the the boat is moored, usually to a mooring buoy to protect the reefs from anchor damage, and you exit and return from/to the moored boat.

 

[Kharon]

I would be very interested to hear the actual account. A diver should be able to be fine on the surface for 20 minutes without air in the tank and a functioning BC, unless they are having a medical issue.

Try it in high choppy seas where even staying at the surface is difficult when hanging on a line out from the boat. You get exhausted pretty quickly. Then try swimming a distance, against current, in gear, under those conditions. After you do that then tell what every diver should be fine with.

I'm also curious how a snorkel became useless - did a purge valve fail or something?

The snorkel was a wide bore semi dry and did not fail. It just couldn't be used in the conditions without taking on water continuously.

For the record, it's the know-it-all posts like this that keep me from posting the full account. Most include the phrase "any diver should be able" - as above, go do it and then talk to me. They also say "I don't see how". Of course you don't. I didn't either - till it happened to me. Do you really think I would have done this on purpose? Since you weren't there, since it didn't happen to you, I wouldn't expect you to see how it could happen. But your post implies that it couldn't and that it was ... Well let's leave it there.

Maybe I should post the full account, along with all of my analysis of my bad decisions and what I would do differently. That would bring the "perfect divers" out in droves. It would make it easy to populate my Ignore list. It would also identify those who try to be honestly helpful as opposed to patronizing and condescending, those whose input and opinions I can trust and respect. Might just do it.

Also for the record, one of those people who honestly want to help reached out through PM. They were supportive and reviewed the full account and my thoughts and offered suggestions. More importantly, they identified some things I hadn't thought of and allowed me to identify some additional equipment, that will go on every dive from now on, that would have made this experience far less threatening and far more survivable. Sincere thanks to that person.

 

[johndiver999]

Try it in high choppy seas where even staying at the surface is difficult when hanging on a line out from the boat. You get exhausted pretty quickly. Then try swimming a distance, against current, in gear, under those conditions. After you do that then tell what every diver should be fine with.



The snorkel was a wide bore semi dry and did not fail. It just couldn't be used in the conditions without taking on water continuously.

For the record, it's the know-it-all posts like this that keep me from posting the full account. Most include the phrase "any diver should be able" - as above, go do it and then talk to me. They also say "I don't see how". Of course you don't. I didn't either - till it happened to me. Do you really think I would have done this on purpose? Since you weren't there, since it didn't happen to you, I wouldn't expect you to see how it could happen. But your post implies that it couldn't and that it was ... Well let's leave it there.

Maybe I should post the full account, along with all of my analysis of my bad decisions and what I would do differently. That would bring the "perfect divers" out in droves. It would make it easy to populate my Ignore list. It would also identify those who try to be honestly helpful as opposed to patronizing and condescending, those whose input and opinions I can trust and respect. Might just do it.

Also for the record, one of those people who honestly want to help reached out through PM. They were supportive and reviewed the full account and my thoughts and offered suggestions. More importantly, they identified some things I hadn't thought of and allowed me to identify some additional equipment, that will go on every dive from now on, that would have made this experience far less threatening and far more survivable. Sincere thanks to that person.

If someone says "I don't see how", it might be that they are inexperienced or unimaginative, but probably not a "know-it-all".

Your initial description seemed to imply that you were drifting off for 20 minutes, however now It sounds like you were holding onto a trailing line at the surface from an anchored/moored vessel. Those are different scenarios. I've seen both.

It sounds like you survived a scary situation that has challenged you preconceptions, your strength, your skills and has shaken your confidence, partially because you have already acknowledged that you made regrettable decisions that placed you in that predicament.

To me, that situation sounds a lot worse than getting off topic criticism from keyboard commandos, but I can understand how you may decide to avoid one more source of stress in your life.

On the other hand, you have made a lot of posts which verify that you are an experienced and competent diver - this makes reporting (and the subsequent analysis) of your "problem" valuable to a good segment of the community - a lot more so than the diver with 10 dives who says he forgot how to clear his mask and got in trouble.

The ocean and waves and currents etc. can all be challenging and anybody who thinks they can master all of them, all the time -is probably due for a wake up call.

I apologize if my prior question/comments were troubling to you. I hope they do not discourage you from considering the benefits that may accrue to others from expanding on the details of your narrative.

 

[lowviz]

For the record, it's the know-it-all posts like this that keep me from posting the full account.

Most unfortunate. This site is full of 'what-if' scenarios, seriously lacking in real scenarios.

The ocean and waves and currents etc. can all be challenging and anybody who thinks they can master all of them, all the time -is probably due for a wake up call.

I have a small problem with the word 'probably'.

Did you drop your weights?

IMHO, (even for Kharon as the target), that was a bit insensitive. Yeah, we all are enquiring minds who want to know, but some things you maybe shouldn't ask that directly...

 

[chillyinCanada]

Most unfortunate. This site is full of 'what-if' scenarios, seriously lacking in real scenarios.
I have a small problem with the word 'probably'.
IMHO, (even for Kharon as the target), that was a bit insensitive. Yeah, we all are enquiring minds who want to know, but some things you maybe shouldn't ask that directly...

How would you suggest that question be asked in a sensitive way, given that the OP did not describe what happened?

 

[lowviz]

How would you suggest that question be asked in a sensitive way

To me, sensitivity is highly situational. Doesn't look like he was wanting the community to pick apart his obvious errors.

What was unthinkable was that a boat would not respond to a repeated distress signal (which they heard and were aware of) for 20 minutes because other divers had not finished their dive. Waves were 4-5 feet and the other divers had instructers with them and a mooring to support them on the surface.

Were there a lot of things I did wrong - absolutely ...//...

He already 'fessed up' in a way that tried to deflect such intense questioning.

IMHO, he is still trying to wrap his head around the whole episode. BTDT myself.

 

[chillyinCanada]

But asking a question is not insensitive or should not be.

I asked if he had a smb up and I asked that because I know that whistles and divers alerts do not necessarily reach the hearing of those aboard.

How does he know that they were aware that he was in trouble? Did they yell "ya, we see you're in crisis and if we get there after we fully load this boat, we'll come and save you"?

Pure speculation on my part, no one on the boat thought that he was in trouble. They made assumptions that he as an experienced diver with a pony would be fine until they could get there. They were wrong.

BTDT

 

[lowviz]

But asking a question is not insensitive or should not be.

Of course not. But the questions would be more effective if they were directed to the OP's concerns rather than the OP's errors.

Concerns:

What was unthinkable was that a boat would not respond to a repeated distress signal (which they heard and were aware of) for 20 minutes because other divers had not finished their dive.

This is the thinking that the OP appears to be wrestling with.

On the first sign of 'lost' diver, my (tied-in) boat cap'n would toss out empty water bottles every so many minutes until everybody else was onboard. Then he would follow the bread crumbs... I expect nothing more if I get blown off the line, my bad. Should he put everyone else in jeopardy just because it is ME who got himself into trouble?

Dive boats here are sea taxis, not nannies.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Of course not. But the questions would be more effective if they were directed to the OP's concerns rather than the OP's errors.

Concerns:
This is the thinking that the OP appears to be wrestling with.

On the first sign of 'lost' diver, my (tied-in) boat cap'n would toss out empty water bottles every so many minutes until everybody else was onboard. Then he would follow the bread crumbs... I expect nothing more if I get blown off the line, my bad. Should he put everyone else in jeopardy just because it is ME who got himself into trouble?

Dive boats here are sea taxis, not nannies.

But you see? Op says they knew yet didn't acknowledge him in any way.

How could both of those things be true?

 

[chillyinCanada]

Of course not. But the questions would be more effective if they were directed to the OP's concerns rather than the OP's errors.

Concerns:
This is the thinking that the OP appears to be wrestling with.

On the first sign of 'lost' diver, my (tied-in) boat cap'n would toss out empty water bottles every so many minutes until everybody else was onboard. Then he would follow the bread crumbs... I expect nothing more if I get blown off the line, my bad. Should he put everyone else in jeopardy just because it is ME who got himself into trouble?

Dive boats here are sea taxis, not nannies.

Asking a question isn't assuming error, it is asking the question.

If op answers the question in the affirmative then that's the end of that line of questioning. If the Op answers in the negative and someone then replies in a judgemental way, then that's insensitive git behavior.