Rescues and bouyancy control

[Big-t-2538]

This is something we are seeking a little guidance with, and it stemmed from a thread concerning when you would ditch your buddy's weight at depth.

NAUI trains their resuce divers to ditch an unconscious and non breathing diver's weight at depth....many argued that this was unsafe and introduced more risks than it did benefits (possibility of death to the unconscious diver, safety of the rescuer, and some other factors).

we were wondering what harm can be caused to an unconscious & non-breathing diver if his weights are ditched at depth and his ascent cannot be controlled by the rescuer. Also what happens to the body when a tox hit occours and in-capacitates a victim cuasing him to surrender breathing.

Thank you in advace for your advice and wisdom.

 

[Diver0001]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
This is something we are seeking a little guidance with, and it stemmed from a thread concerning when you would ditch your buddy's weight at depth.

NAUI trains their resuce divers to ditch an unconscious and non breathing diver's weight at depth....many argued that this was unsafe and introduced more risks than it did benefits (possibility of death to the unconscious diver, safety of the rescuer, and some other factors).

we were wondering what harm can be caused to an unconscious & non-breathing diver if his weights are ditched at depth and his ascent cannot be controlled by the rescuer. Also what happens to the body when a tox hit occours and in-capacitates a victim cuasing him to surrender breathing.

Thank you in advace for your advice and wisdom.

I have a couple of comments:

1) If a diver is unconscious and not breathing then you *really* have to work hard to make his problems worse..... Releasing his weights to get him to the surface isn't going to cause any lung barotrauma because in an unconsious state the throat is relaxed. A worse DCS hit is also unlikely unless the diver is breathing and offgassing.

The Padi method of holding the reg in the diver's mouth is an option you don't have if you dump the weights so if teh reg is still in the mouth then I would do a controlled lift and hold the reg. You should, afterall, assume that the diver is still alive.

2) If a diver falls unconscious from an O2 tox hit, then you're not going to be there to see it or to rescue him (assuming you're using the same gas). Doing so would put you at too much risk as rescuer and it breaks rule #1. But Ok.... in a hypothetical scenario assuming the reg is still in the mouth then hold the reg and do a controlled lift.

R..

 

[Dr Deco]

It is correct that an unconscious diver will have an open glottis and will expel gas from the lungs on the way to the surface.

Dr Deco:doctor:

 

[Genesis]

doesn't this depend on whether they're truly unconscious or whether they're tonic after an O2 tox?

I was told during my Nitrox class that if you tox your airway will be locked shut during the seizure and likely during the tonic phase immediatley following.

If you don't see the seizure a diver who you find "unconscious" could have toxed - if he did, and you shoot him to the surface....

 

[Dr Deco]

Genesis:

It is correct that decompressing a seizing individual will lead to disastrous pulmonary barotrauma. This has occurred in Hyperbaric Medicine settings.:boom:

If the diver is any form of spasm, s/he should not be brought up until that abates.

Dr Deco :doctor:

 

[Genesis]

Let's say you find a diver apparently unconscious on the bottom.

You did not witness the event that led to him being there.

You do not, therefore, have any way to know what has happened. You can see that he is not breathing, as no bubbles are being released from the regulator.

If you find him with the regulator in his mouth, and the tanks have gas, it appears that he could have:

1. Had some kind of cardiac or ischemic problem. If someone doesn't get breathing and/or circulation (you probably can't determine if he has a pulse at depth) restarted within ~4 minutes, he's cooked.

2. He toxed and didn't spit out the reg. Possible. If you do nothing, he will (assuming he did not aspirate water, which is a fairly good bet if the reg is still in his mouth) come around shortly.

Apparently some folks are being taught in RESCUE that the first response to an unconscious diver at depth, where you do not know why he is unconscious, should be to ditch the diver's weights and shoot him to the surface.

I pointed out that if he toxed, and you do that, you are going to seriously injure or perhaps even kill hm, where he might not have suffered any injury at all if you don't! In fact, even if you bring him up slowly (with you), if you initiate that before he comes out of the tonic phase in a tox episode you are lilkely to severely injure him at best.

Now granted, he should come out of the tonic phase in a minute or so. But in a situation where someone has 4 minutes to live, one of those minutes is awfully darned precious if you sit and wait....

(This ignores the probabilities - if the odds of survival if its NOT a tox incident is low enough, then the "right move" is NEVER to shoot him up, since the toxed diver will survive if you don't and he still has his reg. Once he comes out of it you can put him on your known FO2 gas - his tank may be overrich, mislabelled, etc.)

The problem appearsa to be determining what happened, which is darnedly difficult if you didn't witness it.

(If the tank is empty, then its pretty simple to figure out. But if the diver has gas....)

That is what brought the thread here... trying to work the scenario through...

 

[Nessie]

@DrDeco

but what happens if the head is not straight, if the chin is on the chest?Are the airways still open??? No barotrauma?Why are you allways taught to keep the airways open?

 

[devilfish]

Nessie once bubbled...
@DrDeco

but what happens if the head is not straight, if the chin is on the chest?Are the airways still open??? No barotrauma?Why are you allways taught to keep the airways open?

Try to put your chin to the chest, you can still breathe, the airway is still open.

 

[Scuba]

I was told during my Nitrox class that if you tox your airway will be locked shut during the seizure and likely during the tonic phase immediatley following

Is there anything the assisting diver can do during the tonic phase to open the airway without further complicating the problem?

 

[Uncle Pug]

read MHK's posts here