Safety stop/Deco stop .Whats the difference?

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A little off topic, but still relevant...I think.

I believe PADI is dropping the "No Decompression limit" in favor of the term "No Stop Limit", and I assume it is because they agree that all diving requires decompression. GUE uses the term "Minimum Decompression Limit" which I assume is for the same reason. I can't speak for other agencies, for lack of experience with them.
 
It's a shame that basic deco theory is not taught in most OW classes. I don't follow the "keep 'em in the dark" philosophy and want my students to understand gas planning as well as how they on gas and off gas nitrogen. It doesn't matter if you teach your students how to dive with tables or a PDC, they still need to understand concepts like half times and tissue compartments. You don't have to be able to do the calculus or even understand the logarithms used, but at least a tenuous grasp of the fundamental concepts are important for any diver.

Do recreational OW divers really need to know about half times and tissue compartments? GUE-F manages to explain the minimum deco concept without once mentioning them in their course materials IIRC.

I'm all for educating divers, but it's not of much value unless it's understood and applied. Like the basic scuba forum guideline says "Remember that the inquirer is looking for answers that they can understand". A little learning is a dangerous thing.
 
In a nutshell;

Deco Stop - Reasonable likelihood of harm, if stop is omitted.
Safety Stop - Reasonable likelihood of safety, if stop is omitted.


Less concise;

Safety stops are optional pauses in ascent, to provide a greater level of conservatism against the risk of DCS. This conservatism is above and beyond the DCS safety tolerances already defined by the diver's chosen method of dive plan calculation (RDP, dive computer, laptop software etc). As I understand it, they were primarily introduced to mitigate against the risk of novice divers exceeding maximum ascent speeds (which is, in itself, a form of controlled decompression). They serve a secondary purpose of further insulating the diver from DCS risk when deep recreational diving; where some agencies advise that they should be mandatory when dive planning -the diver should plan them, should absolutely intend to follow that planning - but can omit them if other safety considerations favor an immediate ascent to the surface. The benefit of safety stops in reducing sub-clinical/non-symptomatic bubbles has subsequently been proven through research using test divers measured by ultra-sound; this could arguably be extrapolated to signify a lower overall risk of DCS.

The most common form of safety stop is a 3 min pause at 5-6m. However, some agencies advise longer stops and/or multiple safety stop depths (i.e. 1 min@9m + 2 min@6m + 2 min @3m). Most experienced divers (and common sense, applied to basic dive physics) will also recommend taking an additional 1 min to ascend from the safety stop to the surface.

Deco stops are mandatory pauses in ascent, calculated by the chosen dive planning method (tables, dive computer or software) that are necessary to permit sufficient nitrogen off-gassing, at a sufficient ambient pressure (depth) to allow a reasonable certainty of protection against DCS. Their overall effect is still to lengthen/slow ascent times, but the level and duration of stops varies according to the unique parameters of the dive conducted and the specific algorithm used by the chosen dive planning method. The rate of ascent and level/duration of stops is calculated to prevent the diver exceeding the "M-Value" (maximum tissue pressure loading value before DCS symptomatic bubbles are predicted to form) in any of their "tissue compartments" (theoretical mathematical models that represent different speeds of nitrogen absorption/release from the body, of which most algorithms use 8-16 different compartments).

This same "M-Value" is what dictates maximum ascent speed on 'no-stop' dives. However, limiting depth and duration of the dive (i.e. recreational diving) means there is sufficiently low nitrogen absorption (as dictated by the 'tissue compartments') that the dive planning software/algorithm requires no pauses in ascent, just a maximum ascent speed. Remaining at, or below, that speed is sufficient to ensure the 'M-Value' is not exceeded and DCS is unlikely.
 
what about Deep stops, and when should they occur. this might be a technical question though.
 
To answer your question simply ... no. But depending on the dive profile you may still be ongassing slow half-life tissues during your deep stop..

At the OW level I like to use an analogy. Imagine two sinks connected by a common wall, and with a hole near the bottom of that wall that allows water to flow between them. One sink is your lungs, the other your body. As you descend, it's like pouring water into the first sink ... the hole in the bottom of the common wall lets some water into the other sink which will continue to flow in until the two sinks equalize. That's ongassing. As you ascend, you take water out of the "lung" sink. When it reaches a point where the water in that sink is less than in the "body" sink, water will start to flow the other way. That's offgassing.

Now let's take that analogy a bit further. Since your body comprises lots of different types of tissues that ongas and offgas at different rates, let's imagine that there are a bunch of sinks connected to that "lung" sink and that they all have different size holes ... the slower the tissue ongasses/offgasses, the smaller the hole. As we descend, adding water to the lung sink, the rate at which water flows into those other sinks varies depending on the size of the hole. So as the dive proceeds, the level of water in those sinks will vary, with those connected to the smallest holes (the slow tissues) holding the least water while those with the largest holes (the fast tissues) holding the most. As we begin our ascent, and the water level in the "lung" sink gets reduced, those with the highest levels (the fast tissues) will begin to offgas first. And because they have the biggest hole, they will also offgas the quickest. The slow tissue sinks will still be at a fairly low level, and many will continue having water flowing into them because even though the "lung" sink is being lowered, it's still at a higher level than they are.

This is a simplified analogy, but easy to picture ... and a relatively good analogy of what happens inside your body as the dynamics of the dive change.

As we ascend, we want to manage the rate of change between the "tissue" sinks and the "lung" sink, to help our lungs better remove the excess gas. And one thing we can understand about those sinks is that the closer to equal levels they get, the slower the rate of water flow between them will become. Therefore, the deep stop is really to help our fastest tissues "catch up" by managing the level difference between their sink and the "lung" sink. In other words, the deep stop is for the benefit of our fastest tissues. The trade-off (there are always trade-offs) is that our slowest tissues may therefore continue ongassing while we're stopped. It's for this reason that a deep stop is relatively short ... so that we give the maximum benefit to the fast tissues while at the same time making a minimum payment to the slower ones that are still ongassing. The safety stop is more for the benefit of the slower tissues, because by then the "lung" sink has a relatively low level in it, and all of the other sinks are at a higher level and therefore are flowing back into it.

Using this analogy isn't physiologically accurate, in that there's lots going on that it doesn't talk about ... but it helps to conceptualize ongassing and offgassing for people who have never really thought about it before ... and does so in a way that skips all the math. It also puts into context why a safety stop is recommended ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It is a fantastic analogy. How about adding two different liquids into the sink with different viscosities? Trying to extend it to show N2 being more soluble but less permeable than He. I'll work on it.
 
Andy, that's an awesome summary. I really like your verbiage.....which I know sounds crazy, but I think it was all phrased really well. It didn't align exactly with my beliefs, but I really like it to the point where I might just adopt that.

Ken, I don't think you have to have two liquids in the same sink. Just showing the two different processes would help. You could, if you wanted it done simultaneously, have two "lung" sinks.....but I just don't like the idea of the two interacting in hydrostatic forces/effects. I think that two SEPARATE systems would work best. Explain how Nitrogen works. Once they understand that, explain how He varies relative to N2.

---------- Post added November 15th, 2013 at 08:00 AM ----------

Also, here's a thread devoted to the sink analogy. I'll be trying to clean it up a little bit and add what I can.
 
what about Deep stops, and when should they occur. this might be a technical question though.

netdoc touched on this a few posts back. in rec, 'no stop' diving, deep stops are not 'required', BUT if you want to hedge your fast compartment inert gas tension gradients against (slightly) higher loading in the slow compartments, a brief 1-2 minute pause at ~1/2 depth will do. (only one minute because your ascent will clear most of the deco obligation already, and it only takes a few moments at higher pressure gradients to 'pull down' the leading fast compartments into a more palatable tension)

its seems universally accepted that a brief 1-2 stop at 1/2 depth is not a bad thing, EXCEPT for when you're repetitive diving back to back, day to day, as like on a liveaboard or resort diving. when doing many back to back dives, the slow tissues will build over a period of days, and those deep stops will start to load up higher tensions in the slow tissues than compared to getting shallow and taking longer shallow (<~25-10 fsw) stops given the same gas consumption / time frame.

Dr Doolette did a (IMO) really good intro presentation on deco theory, various models, and stop schedules at DAN's rebreather forum 3: RF3.0- Decompression Methods - YouTube drops a bombshell around 30 minutes in, and goes full tech about 40 minutes in, but the first 40 minutes are excellent for all level of diver.

[edit] also, just remember: "Never assume an unexploded Goat is evidence of an effective decompression profile."
 
It is a fantastic analogy. How about adding two different liquids into the sink with different viscosities? Trying to extend it to show N2 being more soluble but less permeable than He. I'll work on it.

It could be an interesting exercise, but let's keep in mind that the purpose of that particular analogy is to help OW students understand why it's important to make a slow ascent and why a safety stop is recommended. The whole point of analogy is to not have to get too complex with concepts they have yet to develop any context for by providing simplified examples of things they can relate to.

Once we get to the point where solubility and permeability mean anything to them (from a decompression perspective), I'm going to tell them to read "Deco for Divers" ... Mark Powell does a better job of explaining things at that level than I ever will ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Do recreational OW divers really need to know about half times and tissue compartments? GUE-F manages to explain the minimum deco concept without once mentioning them in their course materials IIRC.
Most are very interested in the topic, so yeah. Getting a handle on the mechanism helps them to understand that the tables are more of a SWAG than just a WAG.

A little learning is a dangerous thing.
Ergo, less learning should be more dangerous than more learning. I'll stick to more in this case.

My class centers around teaching limits in addition to the necessary skills for diving. Air, depth and time are constantly stressed as are physical and mental limits. One of my favorite catch phrases as we start out any number of topics is "A diver's got to know his limitations!" done with a Dirty Harry snarl.

 
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