Saying Hey, and asking for help...

[dugout]

I just found this web site, referred by a local rescue diver, with the word "need" emphasised! I thought all folks would talk about, here, was what they saw on their various dives. Boy, I feel really stupid, to be honest. I've missed a lot!
I still dive the way I was taught, 30 years ago, and a lot has changed. I've missed all of it. I've seen different gear and procedures when I travel and dive but my system works, so I never questioned anything. Now I'm questioning everything... At least I know what "Nitrox" is, now, and why the stickers are on tanks. Heck, I thought it was a brand of air like some kind of fancy bottled water. Some comments I've received, subtle, and not so subtle, are making a little more sense, also.
I may have been better off not knowing some of the stuff I'm reading. Diving sure has changed and left me behind in my small world.
Well after reading all the different boards, there seems to be segments of divers, which are not unlike different religions, all preaching a different take on the gospel. I thought a diver was a diver. Now I read about cave divers, wreck divers, vacation divers, and tech divers. They all seem to have different sets of rules, which to be frank, seem to be less unique than folks make them out to be. In the same light, I'm not "agnostic", but I don't attend a church, so to speak.

I’m having a really tough time, to be honest. I’m reading stuff that says I should be dead many times over. Then I think, wait a minute, this doesn’t make sense; what am I missing? I feel like a dinosaur that just woke up...

Of all the boards on this site, this one seems to make the most sense to me. I consider myself a capable diver. I set my own limits. And I’m comfortable with the way I dive. This doesn’t mean I don’t have a lot to learn because it’s painfully obvious that I do! I’ve missed a lot but it doesn’t mean I haven’t been, and won’t continue to be, an active diver. I just need to ask a bunch of questions and this seems to be a group of like minded divers, who help and don't preach. I will not be looking for someone to "tech me to dive". I make out just fine and have done so since I started, which was a couple years before I took the PADI basic course.
…and yes, I now dive alone from my own boat, most of the time. I never thought this was a big deal till I found this web site, with links to other web sites, and heard about how unsafe it is. I always looked at a buddy as just that; a buddy. Not as a crutch for my lack of planning or preparedness.
I guess ignorance is blissful, so please be gentle with me and my "stupid questions", if you choose to entertain them. The phrase, what am I missing, will be used a lot. I will appreciate the help and clarifications, trust me. I'm not stupid but it appears I am somewhat ignorant, and certainly a little slow, sometimes.

Anyway, hey everyone!

 

[SwimJim]

Hello Dugout. I was originally certified in '78. I dove for five or six years and got away from it and then got recertified about six years ago. My "recent" recertification taught me about new epuipment and got me wet again. Compared to what I went through thirty years ago, getting recertified was a breeze. Thats good for me, more like a really thinned out, lightweight refresher course. The current standards for new divers are dangerously low in my opinion. That being said I would recommend going through and starting from scratch. It will catch you up on things we didn't have, like BCD's, SPG's, Nitrox and so on. Be prepared to get an OW card in two weekends including dives. Be prepared for NO dive theroy, no six week long lesson plans, No six weeks of pool sessions and half the dives in open water to earn your card. Keep your solo asperiations to yourself or be prepared to be treated like an alien.
I dive with buddies all the time and thats just great. I joined the local dive club and became president after four years in it. We have a great time and I enjoy getting new divers experience and helping them along. Still, there are times when Lake Michigan gets like a mirror and we get outstanding viz. These are times when I take my boat out and dive by myself. Sometimes I do photography or I just dive for the fun of it. Welcome back to diving. If you have half the fun with it I do, your in for a great time. Dive safe.

Jim

 

[knotical]

Hey back atya, dugout.

Years ago, before certifications were common, and well before I was certified, someone suggested a rule of thumb to not go where you can’t get back from if all your gear suddenly disappeared or malfunctioned. Actually, it’s more of a way of identifying risks than a rule.

I too have done some diving with just me, my boat, and my gear. But, I was always (well, usually . . . ) within reasonable swimming distance of shore, even considering currents, etc.

Everything we do entails some risk, and we all choose our own brand and degree of risk tolerance. Most of the “rules” of diving are really suggestions, to be followed or not as we choose. Do I recommend breaking any of them? No. Have I broken them? Many of them, at one time or another, certainly including the conservative one I mentioned in the first paragraph about gear disappearing. But I am aware of the risks I take, and they are usually pretty minor.

Don’t sweat if your way of diving isn’t the current norm. You’re doing the smart thing by learning more and applying what you learn, if and as appropriate for your diving and your risk tolerance.

I too have learned a lot from this board, and hope to continue to learn. Before the feature went away, the phrase above my avatar was “perpetual scuba student”.

We’re waiting for your “stupid questions”.

Welcome aboard.

 

[The Chad]

Welcome dugout!! You are a man after my own heart. I too dive from my own boat, more times alone than not. I'm sure you know plenty and dive within your comfort limits, nothing wrong with that IMHO. Keep in mind things are more complicated now because more ppl figured they could suck more money out of the sport. Credit it to marketing. Ask away, lots of great advise to be had here on the board

 

[dugout]

Hey Jim;
Thanks for the encouragement. I guess going back to square one is a viable option but in a way it seems silly since I currently dive, and often. Plus, it's over an hour to the closest dive shop. When I do go, I get what I need and leave. I generally don't discuss diving, much.
I'm glad you made it back to diving. I have really enjoyed it, over the years. People don't know what they're missing.
My boat leaves the dock most summer evenings. I listen to the ball game, look for breaking fish to cast to, and if nothing is happening and it's slack tide, I gear up, set the flag, and make a dive. Sometimes I spearfish and sometimes I pick crabs, sometimes I just blow bubbles. I always have fun! It's all about the fun, to me.

 

[dugout]

Y'all are posting faster than I can type. Thanks for making me feel welcome, everyone! I really mean it!

When did the "Safety Stop" come into vogue and why? There seems to be a bunch of different NDL tables now. I know about the navy tables and the YMCA tables. Back when my buddy and I got certified we took one look at the Navy tables and then thought about navy divers and quickly came to the conclusion that we ain't no Navy UDT team. We came up with our own table which was simple and we could remember it. I've been diving it ever since. It's based upon 100.
90ft / 10min, 80ft / 20min, 70ft / 30min, 60ft / 40min, 50ft / 50min, and so on...
Make the deepest dive first and work the letter codes as if we maxed out the table for the deepest depth on the first dive. Say we spent 60min at max 40ft. We are "V"s crossing the table to the next dive. I learned that if your on the tables your on the tables. What's the point of the safety stop?

Again, in the same light, why does everyone seem to fear the emergency ascent, "blow and goes", or what I think they are called now, CESAs, now? We did them in AOW if I remember right and we did a bunch of them from 70 ft. Not just one??? I have literally done 100s of them. They are fun, or at least I used to think so. If you are on the tables what is wrong with doing EAs. They used to use the EA to settle the nerves of folks fearing an OOA situation. If you are comfortable doing EAs why would one ever fear being out of air? They would say, "Don't dive deeper than you have practiced EAs if you fear an OOA". Again, am I missing something?

One more question. Can't people swim, anymore? If the engine quits a plane can still fly and a smart pilot never stops flying the airplane, motor or no motor. If you have a malfunction with your buoyancy control gear what happened to swimming??? I can "push button dive" with the rest of them and it certainly helps improve bottom time / air consumption, but dang, if you got a problem, swim! If you got too much crap to swim get rid of it or don't take it. Again What am I missing?

 

[captain]

Dugout, don't feel alone, I have been diving the same way since the late 50's. If the way you are diving works for you doing the dives you do don't lose any sleep over all the young'uns saying what you should or shoudn't do. These guys can argue for days over how is the correct way to wear your mask. It's entertaining but give me a break.
About the only major change over the last 25 years is the computer. Go to the Sea Hunt section, thats where the guys diving the old way are.

 

[dugout]

Captain, I have to respect anyone diving since the late 50s. I was born in the late 50s.
I have no hope for a consensus as there is nothing I have read that leads me to believe that is remotely possible.
I guess what I'm looking for is food for thought. I must admit being a little torn. As you sense, the fear is that I have misses something honestly significant, and that knowledge getting lost in the background noise of all the current dogma. Yes, like how one wears a mask. It can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'm no daredevil and don't want to be one. No one pays me to dive. I dive for fun. Heck, I'll do a safety stop, for example, if I can understand why I'm doing it. There has to be a logical reason to do it, and data to back up the logic, right?
The dive computers look interesting and probably a must have for mixed gas and or complicated deco dives. My computer is between my ears and I must admit it's not getting any faster or more efficient as the years pass.
I will come over and check out the Sea hunt Board and thanks for the invitation. I might be considered an upstart there...

 

[knotical]

Good questions, dugout.

When did the "Safety Stop" come into vogue and why?

This question might get more enlightened answers if it were asked in one of the more widely-read forums, but: I first saw safety stops when DSAT developed PADI’s RDP version of the dive tables. It appears to have been a way to introduce a decompression stop, (without calling it that), on deeper dives to safely retain a moderately lengthy bottom time. For conservatism, and perhaps to slow ascent rates, they recommended they be done on all dives, not just deep ones. As I get older, and therefore more susceptible to DCS, I am more likely to do safety stops; and recently I do deep stops, too.

90ft / 10min, 80ft / 20min, 70ft / 30min, 60ft / 40min, 50ft / 50min.

Seems overly restrictive. What did you do for multi-level dives?

why does everyone seem to fear the emergency ascent, "blow and goes", or what I think they are called now, CESAs, now?

There have been some accidents in training situations, so many folks are wary. The risk is simply that it changes the pressure gradient more rapidly than necessary. Still, I won’t hesitate to do it in a bail-out situation. So far, I only had to do it once for real, back in the “bumped my j-valve lever by mistake” days. The biggest concern to my mind is for instructors who must bring multiple Open Water students up in succession.

if you got a problem, swim! If you got too much crap to swim get rid of it or don't take it.

Agreed.

 

[captain]

Captain, I have to respect anyone diving since the late 50s. I was born in the late 50s.
I have no hope for a consensus as there is nothing I have read that leads me to believe that is remotely possible.
I guess what I'm looking for is food for thought. I must admit being a little torn. As you sense, the fear is that I have misses something honestly significant, and that knowledge getting lost in the background noise of all the current dogma. Yes, like how one wears a mask. It can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'm no daredevil and don't want to be one. No one pays me to dive. I dive for fun. Heck, I'll do a safety stop, for example, if I can understand why I'm doing it. There has to be a logical reason to do it, and data to back up the logic, right?
The dive computers look interesting and probably a must have for mixed gas and or complicated deco dives. My computer is between my ears and I must admit it's not getting any faster or more efficient as the years pass.
I will come over and check out the Sea hunt Board and thanks for the invitation. I might be considered an upstart there...

I started using a computer in 1984 and I believe it is a good idea plus you might see a increase in your bottom time depending on what profiles you dive. They definately help on repetitive dives. I am still not sold on the necessity for the safety stop on any and all dives especially if you are not near the NDL. I have been on this board a few years but so far I have not found any earth shaking life or death information that I could apply to my diving. If I was a bit younger I might be interested in mixed gas for deeper dives but at 62 years old I stay at depths that I am comfortable with. Unless you have a desire to get into more technical diving such as deep wreck or cave diving you are probably OK diving as you have been. I would suggest you add a computer to your gear. Not all the computers are the same so you might want to do some research.