Saying Hey, and asking for help...

[Nemrod]

Welcome but I am not sure how this got in the solo forum.

Seems you are a lost soul, well, I also extend Captain's invite to the vintage world. Join us at the Sea Hunt Era on this forum and www.vintagedoublehose.com and www.vintagescubasupply.com.

For the record, everyone who dives vintage equipment is not old. We just like diving with traditional equipment and methods. Many including me dive any and all equipment, old, new and inbetween and even all mixed up, the eclectic diver.

Hey, don't be a girlymahn poodle jacket diver, dive double hose.

N
NAVED Master Diver 111

 

[dugout]

This question might get more enlightened answers if it were asked in one of the more widely-read forums, but: I first saw safety stops when DSAT developed PADI’s RDP version of the dive tables. It appears to have been a way to introduce a decompression stop, (without calling it that), on deeper dives to safely retain a moderately lengthy bottom time. For conservatism, and perhaps to slow ascent rates, they recommended they be done on all dives, not just deep ones. As I get older, and therefore more susceptible to DCS, I am more likely to do safety stops; and recently I do deep stops, too.

This is in line with what I have been reading, as well. With the trend toward a desire for extended bottom time and deeper rec dives, they incorporated this into training as routine and a warm up to deco diving. As conservative as I am, I can't see the need of it for me. We are all probably products of our training, like it or not. I was taught to avoid dives off the tables as deco stops were a inexact science and risky business.

Seems overly restrictive. What did you do for multi-level dives?

I take the deepest depth of the dive. It might be a little tame.
We just thought about The navy divers we had seeing swimming up and down the Severn river, doing 4 mile swims every morning, reportedly, and thought there was no way we could handle what they could. We had enough trouble passing the buddy breathing test, which was no picnic.

There have been some accidents in training situations, so many folks are wary. The biggest concern to my mind is for instructors who must bring multiple Open Water students up in succession.

Hmmm... I always considered this basic training as the most obvious and natural bail-out is an EA. Being proficient, and comfortable with it solves many issues. Couldn't they go one on one with experienced divers for the initial training?
The problems may be self induced as there is so much stress and consternation over teaching it, it's sure to scare a student stiff. People sense fear. From my point of view, I fear an octopus rig a lot more than EAs.

Thanks, Knotical!

 

[chasanova]

I'd saya welcome, but then I am new to the board as well.

I do have a link that you may find interesting with regards to your question on saftey stops.
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/news/article.asp?newsid=514

follow up on th ebibliography for more info. One of the more interesting things I noted here was the total arbitrary nature of ascent rate recommendations by the navy some time ago.

On a related note, some time ago when I first was thinkking about solo diving I was doing a ton of reading on various self rescue and solo diving thoughts. I remeber tryting to synthesize various opinions about deco, being bent, in water recompression (heretical apparently). I came across some research that I can not lay my hands on tonight that indicated that ascent rate was fairly meaningless up to about 50' (this presumed non-stauration and less than 200' max depth). The hypothesis essentially was that the percentage of of the total ascent (and therefore decrease in pressure) that each foot of ascent represented was fairly minimal until you get to that last 50'. I think there was some thought about how there is still enough pressure below about 1.5 atmospheres (50') to keep bubble size small enough to not cause problems.

Anyone else see this study/discussion?

I also found reading Richard Pyle's expereicnes and discussion quite instructive.

What seems very clear to me is that there is still a tremendous amount to learn about how human tissues behave in pressurized environments.

I entirely agree with you about blow and go or CESA comfort, it is an under practiced and important skill to be comforatable with.

I am very interested to folow your leanring on thsi board, please share what you find intresting from other sources too.

 

[dugout]

Hey Nemrod,

I don't see myself as lost although I'm certainly out of the loop. I guess I got here because I dive solo most of the time. I also like the feeling I get here which seems less judgemental of others. There seems to be a general fear of confident and secure people in today's society. Those who cling to the comfort of structure out of a lack of self confidence see something threatening about individuals acting as individuals, and taking personal responsibility for those actions.

I think the vintage gear is really cool. I'm into the diving more than the gear, to be honest. My gear is late 70 era stuff. Poseidon REGs, Seapro At-pac, Aqualung masks, SP jet fins, AL80 tanks. To some this might be vintage but its "just gear" to me. I guess I started feeling a little old when the Hydo center started drilling holes in some of my tanks which I bought new. My At-Pac is really showing it's age so I need to replace it this winter. I've been working on my REGs since I got them but I would like to find a knowledgeable Poseidon Tech to go over them and make sure everything is okay. I may add an SPG, as well. I'm looking at going to DIN from yoke, too.

Thanks for the welcome and the invite to the Sea Hunt board.

 

[dugout]

Chasanova,

Thanks for the link. DAN seems interesting as well as the link itself. I'm losing count. How many Tables or algorithms are in use? Who uses what? Does one program a dive computer to use the one you choose?
Navy
PADI
NAUI
RGBM
VPM

 

[Nemrod]

"I think the vintage gear is really cool. I'm into the diving more than the gear,"--quote from Dugout.


Me too, vintage is not just about "gear" but also the methods and techniques such as in the thread on diving without a BC. I prefer the simplicity and robust design and streamlined profile, reliability and comfort of vintage gear--but--I am a diver first and all the gear I own is for diving, I am not much of collector. I own the newest gear as well as old and use it all when the situation warrants a particular need.

I use the original Navy tables. I don't have a computer, just as the DIR guys, I don't like that approach. I may get one but not sure. I toy with the idea because as I get older I see the possibilities with nitrox etc and my brain computing power may be at it's limit--lol.

Like several people on this board, I have my own secret tables or application of the tables. Like them, it is a secret and like them I will not discuss it. Why, I am not going to be responsible for other people's interpretation of my methods which continue to evolve over now close to 40 years of diving.

No, you do not program the computers, they come preloaded though I think you can set--within limits--a bias or safety factor.

DIN has a place but for most diving, especially travel, your going to be renting tanks with standard yoke valves--most of the time. A DIN adapter--I have some for my favorite regulators is a nice addition. Outside of certain specialty diving, the yoke is just fine for pressures up to and just above 3,000 psi.

N
NAVED Master Diver 111

 

[dugout]

Me too, vintage is not just about "gear" but also the methods and techniques such as in the thread on diving without a BC. I prefer the simplicity and robust design and streamlined profile, reliability and comfort of vintage gear--but--I am a diver first and all the gear I own is for diving, I am not much of collector. I own the newest gear as well as old and use it all when the situation warrants a particular need.

I guess you have me there. I just assumed KISS management, equipping as necessary, and the ability to manage buoyancy with breathing, etc, was "just diving". Maybe it does fall under vintage but that is really sad, if this is the case.

I use the original Navy tables. I don't have a computer, just as the DIR guys, I don't like that approach. I may get one but not sure. I toy with the idea because as I get older I see the possibilities with nitrox etc and my brain computing power may be at it's limit--lol. Like several people on this board, I have my own secret tables or application of the tables. Like them, it is a secret and like them I will not discuss it. Why, I am not going to be responsible for other people's interpretation of my methods which continue to evolve over now close to 40 years of diving.

It seems Captain is correct, which doesn't surprise me. There does seem to be more folks looking a the physiological aspects of diving and the effects of pressure but it still seems nothing has definitively become the universal gospel. It's all one theory vs another. I find it curious that nothing has shown to decrease the number DCS accidents. Here is an example of what concerns me about the dive computers. The guy put his trust in a dive computer and took a nasty, and I mean nasty hit. The profiles are all there to see, downloaded from a Suunto D9.
http://www.wiscuba.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=1486.0
It just proves that some day we are the hammer and some days we are the nail. Life isn't always fair...

 

[chasanova]

Hey Nemrod,
<snip>I also like the feeling I get here which seems less judgemental of others. There seems to be a general fear of confident and secure people in today's society. Those who cling to the comfort of structure out of a lack of self confidence see something threatening about individuals acting as individuals, and taking personal responsibility for those actions.

Yeah, I am fairly tired of the safetycrats and scaredycats tellin' us all how to run our lives.
I have been using a computer since I my 10th dive or so, and I did my research and went with one that I felt reflected what I would be doing. I back that up with knowing what the tables tell me are my limits too.

if you like working on your regs yourself... I recommend Vance Harlow's book
http://www.airspeedpress.com/newregbook.html

I think A lot of people do not think about how important hydration is with regard to the bends.

 

[dugout]

I have been using a computer since I my 10th dive or so, and I did my research and went with one that I felt reflected what I would be doing. I back that up with knowing what the tables tell me are my limits too.

if you like working on your regs yourself... I recommend Vance Harlow's book

I think A lot of people do not think about how important hydration is with regard to the bends.

Which computer did you choose and why?

Since the accident I referred to was with a D9 I read the manual and support info for that computer, and the simple Gekko, last night. They use the RGBM model. There is a personal setting and an alt setting which individually or together empowers the user to build in a substantial safety fact. I must say, I was impressed with both computers. As with any tool, the computer could be miss-used. pushing the limits is the same, computer or paper tables. It still boils down to the nut behind the wheel and the 6" computer between our ears.
Hydration is a major factor in any sport and even more so diving. I have waived off dives due to self induced dehydration. (read as major hangover)

The REG book looks great! I ordered one. I would still like to have the regs checked by an experienced tech. They are 30 years old... I'm not sure I would spot a major problem brewing. The Poseidon's are almost too durable and make one wonder.

Thanks!

 

[chasanova]

Which computer did you choose and why?

Since the accident I referred to was with a D9 I read the manual and support info for that computer, and the simple Gekko, last night. They use the RGBM model. There is a personal setting and an alt setting which individually or together empowers the user to build in a substantial safety fact.

I have the Vyper for the reasons you suggest above re: the Gekko. and the computer interface

The REG book looks great! I ordered one. I would still like to have the regs checked by an experienced tech. They are 30 years old... I'm not sure I would spot a major problem brewing. The Poseidon's are almost too durable and make one wonder.

The book is very well written, and thorough in its explanations. Based on my own nascent understandings of regs, I think that the only major things you may find would be induced from wear, which would probably manifest as an unstable or creeping intermediate pressure. This is fairly easy to test on your own (small investment in tools), or by the LDS tech, you might want to look over his shoulder, to see what he is looking for.