Second Caymans fatality in a week

[vladimir]

My bad, I read the sticky that said "(6) No "emoting" here; no anger, sadness, elation or condolences. Just the facts, the analysis of the facts, and the recommendations that flow from the analysis of the facts. " I think it says, just the facts.

I can see how that might be confusing. That sticky governs posting in the sub-forum entitled "Mishap Analysis." You are not in that forum. Below is a cut-and-paste of the sticky that governs the use of this forum. Note item 7, which implicitly permits speculation:

Special Rules for Accidents & Incidents Forum

The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving.
Accidents, and incidents that could easily have become accidents, can often be used to illustrate actions that lead to injury or death, and their discussion is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow. To foster the free exchange of information valuable to this process, the "manners" in this forum are much more tightly controlled than elsewhere on the board. In addition to the TOS:

(1) You may not release any names here, until after the names have appeared in the public domain (articles, news reports, sheriff's report etc.) The releasing report must be cited. Until such public release, the only name you may use in this forum is your own.
(2) Off topic posts will be removed and off topic comments will be edited.
(3) No flaming, name calling or otherwise attacking other posters. You may attack ideas; you may not attack people.
(4) No trolling; no blamestorming. Mishap analysis does not lay blame, it finds causes.
(5) No "condolences to the family" here. Please use our Passings Forum for these kinds of messages.
(6) If you are presenting information from a source other than your own eyes and ears, cite the source.
(7) If your post is your hypothesis, theory, or a "possible scenario," identify it as such.
(8) If your post is about legal action that concerns a mishap, use the Scuba Related Court Cases forum.
Thanks in advance,
Rick​

 

[mikeycanuk]

Are they also unhappy about old American coming to spend their $$$ on the island?

I'm sure they aren't. It just the endless bad headlines they don't like. 8 eldery divers dead so far this year and it's only half way through the year.

Cayman Islands News

 

[USFpsychDiver]

I took up diving in my mid-50's and started cave diving a year later. One of my major concerns taking on Cave was the extent that I might be putting buddies in danger, something I discussed with my instructor and all my dive buddies. I've dove with people younger than me and people older than me. I've dove with people younger than me who are in worse shape than I am and people older than me who are in better shape than I am. I am training for solo diving, which I will do when I feel safe doing so, but I don't plan to stop diving with friends just because I'm at a greater risk of heart attack than a 25 year old. It would definitely suck for anyone diving with me or near me if I should kick off mid-dive, and for the folks that would have to come fish me out (really can't leave a corpse back in the cave; mucks it up for the next diver). But the same could be said if I were to keel over into my soup at a nice restaurant -- it'd really put the other diners off their feed. I'm not going to restrict myself to dining solo either. Of course the other diners aren't at greater risk of dying if I flop over at dinner; dive buddies could be at a greater risk, but as long as they understand that risk and are willing to take it, I'll dive with them.

 

[beaverdivers]

Cayman Islands News

I believe a reasonable analygy could be drawn between older divers & older drivers. I wonder if there are more deaths on the roads in Grand Cayman due to older drivers?
Isn't the diving easier than the driving in Grand Cayman? ( Of course, the Brac & Little Cayman are still a safey place to drive, not that many people bother - diving is more Fun! ).

When does an older person give-up their license ( driver's or diver's )?

Tough decision!

 

[InTheDrink]

For the older diver with with no contraindication a small dose dose of beta blocker: propranolol 5 mg a couple of hours before diving should have minimal effect on blood pressure and still allow a heart rate response to exercise, and may be protective in a high stress situation.

Also for those on BP meds, it's a good idea to check your BP before diving and makes sure it's within range. And of course avoid dehydration, common in diving, by sipping on water before and between dives.

+1 about checking BP prior to a diving trip.

-LOTS for advocating Propranolol and diving over the Internet. No proof but there are concerns it could be a factor in IPE. I'd certainly not be suggesting it on an Internet forum as something safe for diving.

 

[agilis]

When does an older person give-up their license ( driver's or diver's )?


Certainly an important issue, but restricting it to older people is hardly appropriate. I've seen lots of drivers who should never have been given a license in the first place. We all have.

Still, the loss of certain abilities is inevitable with age. I once saw an older man utterly frozen with fear on one of Dominica's extremely dangerous narrow potholed roads hacked out of a mountainside hundreds of feet over a valley with a cliff on one side and eternity on the other. There was a feeder road coming down at about a 30 degree slope. It was a confusing bit of road and this elderly gentleman was stopped perpendicular to the main road, wheels cut at a sharp angle, eyes seemingly unfocused, mouth partly open, clearly unable to move.

This road was too much for his ability, but the truth is that some of Dominica's back roads are too much for most American drivers I've observed. And the old dude was, I think, younger than me.

It would be so repetitive of previous posts, mine and many other people's, that I will not bother to point out that there are great numbers of certified divers out there who should restrict themselves to the shallow end of the pool. I have no way of documenting this, but my observation is that old experienced divers in general are superior divers, using less gas, having better skills, and moving through the water more gracefully than divers much younger than they are.

Of course, older divers die at higher rates while engaged in just about any activity you can think of, including sleeping. That's part of the price we pay for long lives.

I think more older divers voluntarily restrict themselves than do older drivers, for a number of obvious reasons. I have no hesitation in asserting that incompetent older divers and incompetent older drivers are greatly outnumbered by unskilled dangerous incompetents in both categories who are many decades younger.

 

[vincent54]

What bothers me is the emphasis on age. I am in the stroke and heart attack years and the last thing I want to hear is some bureaucrat, or "expert" telling me I can't dive. If a dive buddy has an accident or heart attack, than you take care of business. Most divers won't care if it puts them at added risk, that's what diver's do. At some point we die, whether it is in a bed, underwater, or watching the TV. We don't need more ammunition for the government or dive industry to regulate who can and can't dive when it comes to age or even preexisting illness.

If dive boats don't want the risk, give me some tanks and I'll go out by myself. If I don't comeback, big deal. Maybe a Giant Squid ate me, either way I am gone. We don't need wives, kids, friends, dive masters, government agencies telling me when it is time to quit.

No offense to the young, but I always like to see the grey haired pilot when I get on the plane. He/she may have the heart attack, but if the plane runs into trouble it is my best chance of survival. Same with boat operators and motorcycle/car racers and on and on. They have seen it, done it and survived it. Works for me.

Best wishes to all and dive till the end. Cheers

 

[flots am]

I'm sure they aren't. It just the endless bad headlines they don't like. 8 eldery divers dead so far this year and it's only half way through the year.

Cayman Islands News

People die.

If I kick the bucket on a sandy island while watching beautiful fish and coral, I'll have gotten a much better deal than my father, who died in a hospital bed hooked up to machines.

I think I'll leave a wetote in my BC pocket that says "If I'm dead, throw a party and celebrate. I got a much better death than most humans could ever hope for."

The CI should start a new tradition of throwing a big party by the pier whenever a diver kicks off.

flots.

 

[bluejaykaren]

I think diving is what is going to make me live longer. Not kill me. It has inspired me to be healthy. When I joined the YMCA to work out more, the assistant who's job was to help me design a workout program asked me what my goal is. I told him it was to climb down a ladder with all my scuba gear and weights on, swim for an hour, climb back up the ladder and not be too tired to do in again in an hour. I spent two weeks in Grand Cayman last month and I was able to do just that. If I had not had that goal I wouldn't be near so motivated to work out.

 

[DandyDon]

People die.

If I kick the bucket on a sandy island while watching beautiful fish and coral, I'll have gotten a much better deal than my father, who died in a hospital bed hooked up to machines.

I think I'll leave a wetote in my BC pocket that says "If I'm dead, throw a party and celebrate. I got a much better death than most humans could ever hope for."

The CI should start a new tradition of throwing a big party by the pier whenever a diver kicks off.

flots.

I like that. It may not work, but I like it.