Shearwater Perdix AI wish list

[stuartv]

I have a list of Perdix AI "updates" that I wish Shearwater would implement. This weekend, my list grew by one item. I decided to post my whole wish list here and see how many people want the same things. Maybe if enough people voice support, Shearwater will implement at least some of these things. Starting with my new item first.

1) Change the display settings for the middle row (OC Tec mode) to allow more than just ppO2. Specifically, I would like to be able to display T1 and T2 tank pressures AND also have a Timer. As it is, the center field in the middle row only allows ppO2 or nothing. So, in sidemount, I have to decide whether I'd rather see both tank pressures OR have a timer replacing one of the tank pressure fields.

2) Change the GTR function to reflect ALL the time required for an ascent and any stops that the computer will prompt for. Including if you go into deco. IMO, it's fine to calculate GTR assuming the diver will only use the Active gas and based on the SAC measured on any/all transmitters that are currently enabled. My Oceanic AI computer calculates GTR to include any and all stops that will be prompted for. I don't see why my Perdix AI cannot do the same.

It would certainly seem fine to me if GTR was limited so that it is only displayed when there is exactly 1 gas Enabled. I.e. if I have a deco gas marked as Enabled (not necessarily Active), then GTR doesn't display at all, ever.

3) Add another setting for what transmitter is displayed. That setting would be something like T Active. When that setting is selected for display, the Perdix would display T1 pressure if the first gas in the gas list is Active. It would display T2 pressure if the second gas in the gas list is Active. That would allow the diver to have a transmitter on each gas to be used during a dive and only have to display 1 tank pressure on the screen, and the tank pressure displayed would automatically be whichever one corresponds to the gas currently being breathed.

If you install transmitters on 1st stage and leave them there, and you always use the same 1st stage for your back gas, the same 1st stage for your lean deco gas, and the same 1st stage for your rich deco gas, then you would just have to configure your computer one time and it would then always be correct. You would only ever need to edit your gas list to set the gas mixes for each gas.

This would require a programming change to the gas list, as it currently shows them in order from richest to leanest. You would need to be able to have Gas 1 remain as the first gas in the list, even if it was not the richest gas in the list.

4) Give me some way to have my current Gradient Factors setting displayed on the main screen. I don't change my GF often, but it's something I should check on every dive. Having it on the main screen, so I am reminded of what it is without having to remember to check and then press buttons would definitely be more useful to me than, for example, having my current ppO2 displayed. I'm diving OC. I select my gas based on my planned max depth and ppO2 preferences. I know I am "safe" before I get in the water and don't need to see it displayed once I'm in the water.

5) Update the onboard dive log to let me see Start and End tank pressures for all configured transmitters. Also, show the measured SAC.

6) Let me configure a tank size (in cu-ft or liters) for each transmitter. Let me choose RMV for display, as an alternative to SAC. (This one is definitely low priority for me, but I have seen other posts wishing for this)

7) Let me choose 30' (or 9m) as my last stop depth. It's really common at least among my circle of tech divers, to use EAN80 as a final deco gas, in order to stay down out of surface chop. It would be nice if my TTS display reflected that.


Anybody else have anything to add to the wish list? Think any of my wishes should be changed to be of more benefit to more people?

If you think the Perdix AI is already perfect and cannot be improved in any way, there really is no need to comment at all.

 

[RyanT]

Hey Stuart, thanks for the thread,

Here's my 2 psi... I agree that all of those things would be nice additions. However, I wonder if we might get to a point of diminishing returns, where the additional information/options begin to come at the cost of increased button complexity and/or screen clutter?

 

[Roger Hobden]

I don't have a dive computer yet, but these seem to be very reasonable suggestions.

Maybe I should wait to see if they are implemented before I buy a "Perdix II" ?

 

[tbone1004]

I don't have a dive computer yet, but these seem to be very reasonable suggestions.

Maybe I should wait to see if they are implemented before I buy a "Perdix II" ?

Shearwater regularly releases firmware updates and all of those issues are correctable in firmware. Whether or not it is deemed necessary is up to @Shearwater themselves, but I would not use any of those issues as justification to avoid purchasing that unit.

@stuartv
1. I think having a split cell with T1 and T2 pressures with a dot next to the "active" transmitter would be more valuable
2. I think that may be fine for the OC-rec mode, but in tec mode it is not something that I want because it makes the GTR number completely useless for true technical dives, especially for those using it on rebreathers. I think it would be valuable instead of switching to "deco" that it displays GTR to the first stop. That said, for sidemount it is pretty useless anyway because it only factors it based on one tank and it would be more problematic to ask for it to factor in both tanks. For backmount it works, for CCR it's useless, and for sidemount it's too complicated. For OC-Rec I think it'd be fine.
3. Again, that would be fine for backmount with no bottom stages, but it wouldn't work well in sidemount or on CCR's where having the second transmitter in use has a lot of value. Trying to fit that one scenario in would require a lot of complication in the menu structure that could lead to functionality problems. I think having the split cell with both gas pressures and a dot next to the tank that it thinks is "active" would be better.
4. what benefit does GF have for you being displayed? I agree that there are other things I'd like displayed over ppO2 when on OC, but not sure GF would be one of them when in the water.
I think a "surface" screen would be nice though
Change the "depth" cell to temperature
Change the center row to include temperature, and GF
Change the bottom right half to show "clock

5. that's probably something they're working on with the release of the new cloud software. I'd expect that to be in some near future firmware update

6. I think that falls into the "gets too complicated", and well as the "liability" shortcoming in the menu structure, especially for US tanks. You have to input two variables for the tank, either one of which being one digit wrong could mean BIG problems in the accuracy of that measurement, and I don't think that one would be worth the risk if I were making that call. Would it be nice? Sure, but in caves, PSI/min is more valuable than CF/min since that is what the spg's display.

7. that one is indeed complicated. There has been a couple of threads recently asking for the rec nitrox mode to have a 15ft final stop and now 30'. It is certainly a common stop depth in the ocean, and may be something easily implementable provided the algorithm doesn't get too miffed by it for TTS

 

[scubadada]

I have complained (offered constructive criticism) previously. I dive rec. I want #2 so that a Perdix is as good as my 7 1/2 year old Oceanic VT3. Re #s 5&6, I don't need to see my pressures in the log but I would like to designate a cylinder in the download so that it will auto calculate my RMV. Again, something my VT3 does.

Thanks Shearwater

 

[charlier]

I will add my two bar to Ryan’s psi. My vote is to keep the Rec mode interface simple and clean. I really like the interface and sometimes wish that the tech mode had a similar interface. It’s super easy to click a button to get more information.

 

[CWK]

A. There is a mini AI display that holds 3 bits of info:
1. T1 pressure
2. GTR
3. SAC

I would very much like:
1. T1 pressure
2. GTR
3. TTS

B. At present, the Rec OC mode allows the user to customise the lower middle and lower right fields. Shearwater treats this as 2 user customisable fields. The mini AI display shows three bits of info, the footprint of each of the 2 user customisable fields is large enough to hold 3 sub fields. Ultimately, Shearwater can allow users to customise each of these sub fields.

 

[stuartv]

Hey Stuart, thanks for the thread,

Here's my 2 psi... I agree that all of those things would be nice additions. However, I wonder if we might get to a point of diminishing returns, where the additional information/options begin to come at the cost of increased button complexity and/or screen clutter?

I'm not really proposing to create any new screen clutter. I'm not asking for more fields on the screen. Just changes to how certain fields are calculated, and the option to have a different piece of data displayed in one of the existing fields.

In the setup menus, most of what I'm asking for would just be something like 1 additional choice in the list that you cycle through. E.g. in the Last Stop menu setting, instead of just cycling between 10 and 20, add 30 to the list that you cycle through. In the Field 2 display setting, instead of just cycling between PO2 and blank, add GF and Timer to the list.

1. I think having a split cell with T1 and T2 pressures with a dot next to the "active" transmitter would be more valuable
2. I think that may be fine for the OC-rec mode, but in tec mode it is not something that I want because it makes the GTR number completely useless for true technical dives, especially for those using it on rebreathers. I think it would be valuable instead of switching to "deco" that it displays GTR to the first stop. That said, for sidemount it is pretty useless anyway because it only factors it based on one tank and it would be more problematic to ask for it to factor in both tanks. For backmount it works, for CCR it's useless, and for sidemount it's too complicated. For OC-Rec I think it'd be fine.
3. Again, that would be fine for backmount with no bottom stages, but it wouldn't work well in sidemount or on CCR's where having the second transmitter in use has a lot of value. Trying to fit that one scenario in would require a lot of complication in the menu structure that could lead to functionality problems. I think having the split cell with both gas pressures and a dot next to the tank that it thinks is "active" would be better.
4. what benefit does GF have for you being displayed? I agree that there are other things I'd like displayed over ppO2 when on OC, but not sure GF would be one of them when in the water.
I think a "surface" screen would be nice though
Change the "depth" cell to temperature
Change the center row to include temperature, and GF
Change the bottom right half to show "clock

5. that's probably something they're working on with the release of the new cloud software. I'd expect that to be in some near future firmware update

6. I think that falls into the "gets too complicated", and well as the "liability" shortcoming in the menu structure, especially for US tanks. You have to input two variables for the tank, either one of which being one digit wrong could mean BIG problems in the accuracy of that measurement, and I don't think that one would be worth the risk if I were making that call. Would it be nice? Sure, but in caves, PSI/min is more valuable than CF/min since that is what the spg's display.

7. that one is indeed complicated. There has been a couple of threads recently asking for the rec nitrox mode to have a 15ft final stop and now 30'. It is certainly a common stop depth in the ocean, and may be something easily implementable provided the algorithm doesn't get too miffed by it for TTS

1) That's a fine suggestion. A T Mini display for when you're diving sidemount and you want to monitor 2 tanks at once. That would then allow me to have both tank pressures, a Mini Compass, and a Timer, all on the middle row. I like it.

Going along with my other wishes (below) for a T Active setting and a "Sidemount" mode of some type, I would wish that, if you're in SM mode and use the T Active setting, then when Gas 1 is Active, the computer would automatically use the T Mini display to show both SM tank pressures. When you do a gas switch to switch to a deco gas, then the T Active display would change to show only the tank pressure for the transmitter that corresponds to the Active gas.

2) I have been regarding GTR as useless for dives involving deco gases. Thus why I suggested that GTR could be made to only be available when there is only 1 gas Enabled. However, it would be fine (and maybe even simpler) to say GTR is time to the next gas switch, period. As long as it still reflects all the time it will prompt for between "now" and when you do the switch (i.e. including deco and safety stops). That would still yield the same result that I am trying to achieve. If there is only 1 gas Enabled, then "next gas switch" would be synonymous with reaching the surface. Thus, in that case GTR would behave exactly as I wish for it to.

For sidemount, I can think of a few ways to crack that nut, but the simplest might be to add another setting choice. Instead of only a choice for GTR, add a choice for GTR-SM (or however you want to label it). For GTR Sidemount mode, it would assume that T1 and T2 are both connected to same-sized tanks filled with the same gas. So, it would apply the currently measured SAC to both tank pressures to calculate the total GTR. Of course, this would apply the same in both OC Tec and OC Rec modes.

3) If you're diving with stages or some other configuration where the "T Active" setting doesn't make sense for you, then you wouldn't use that setting. For the 99% of dives that are done in the world that don't involve stage bottles or CCR, I think it would work really well.

I'm not proposing to remove any of the existing display options. I'm just wishing to add another choice that would be nice for a LOT of dives (ALL the dives I have ever done, anyway).

4) What benefit is there to showing GF? About the same benefit as showing "OC 21/00" on the bottom line. I mean, if the computer is in OC Tec or OC Rec mode, does it really need to show me "OC"?

GF is something I change sometimes. As a result, and because it's not shown on my main page, I have splashed for a dive with it set to different values than what I thought or intended. Of course that was my mistake. But, in order to help me catch my mistake sooner next time, it would be more helpful for me to have GF shown on the main screen than, for example, ppO2.

GF is something I would like to see on the screen on every dive, so that will be reminded of the currently selected values (in case I mess up again).

5) Showing the start and end tank pressures in the onboard dive log has NOTHING to do with the Cloud. I want to be able to look at my log on the Perdix and see that info, even if I am nowhere near a data connection or smartphone.

6) You're right. People with Imperial tanks would have to enter the surface air volume (cu-ft) and working pressure. People with metric tanks can put in just the tank's water volume. The computer should provide that data entry in either format depending on what units it is set for. However, I don't see that as a big deal. Other computers let people enter their tank size. It's not that hard.

The only big deal I see in the programming is that most AI computers associate each transmitter to a specific gas (meaning, a specific slot # in the gas table). The Perdix does not. I think that would have to change - which would dovetail perfectly with my wish for the "T Active" setting. So, this change would be a bigger deal coding-wise than it might seem.

I also feel like this is a pretty low priority on my wish list. TBH, I don't really care about this one much for myself. It's more a case of seeing a number of posts from other people wishing for this - and noting that they have this feature available on some other computers.

7) Is that a typo? You think having 30' as a Last Stop option is complicated? I don't see that. Once the algorithm is coded to have Last Stop as a parameter (which it already is, allowing for 10 or 20), it should not require any re-coding to handle 30 (or 15). That ought to just be a case of adding 2 more choices to the last of options for the Last Stop setting.

That said, I am unclear on why anyone wants a Last Stop of 15'. Last Stop is only used for deco, I think. Is it that people want to be able to choose a different depth for where the computer prompts for a Safety Stop? I don't get that. It starts counting down your safety stop (in OC Rec mode) once you hit 20'. It continues to count down as long as you are between 23' and 7'. So, you can hang at 15' or 10' or wherever you want. I don't understand why anyone would want a Last Stop of 15'.

 

[tbone1004]

@stuartv

1) I think that the complexity of implementing that outweighs the benefit of that. Especially problematic in sidemount. If you think about the criteria for when it would change, "active delta p", then you could be exhaling and hit a wing inflator and it would start swapping back and forth between the pressures. I'd rather it display both in a split-cell and forego the annoyance if it potentially being on the wrong transmitter.

2) have it default to show GTR with all stops if there is only 1 active gas is something I agree with

3) I still think a split cell as "Default" if both sensors are paired, and a single cell if only one is paired is going to be more simple

4) you have to remember that Shearwater was founded as a rebreather computer company first, and catered to the OC crowd and then the Rec crowd second so functionality is going to be primarily tailored to the CCR divers. It needs to show you the active gas, especially in tec mode. Having it show you the OC is there for consistency between OC/SCR/CCR modes and removing it wouldn't really give you enough screen space to put anything else in there so it maintains consistency with no real ill effect.
Having it display GF during the dive is a wasted cell imo, however I think having a "surface" screen would be nice and it would be ideal to have that displayed on the surface screen.

5) I think there will be another firmware update once the cloud thing is done that may address the pressures on the screen. I'm thinking that their programmers are focused on getting the cloud out because we've been complaining about the desktop program for years and it hasn't changed in years. Once they are out of that, I think you'll see a firmware upgrade to the Perdix AI that will have that in the log.

6) yeah, it's definitely a lot more complicated than it may seem and information that I don't think is really beneficial during the dive. I think in the desktop software it would be nice to be able to assign a specific tank to each transmitter in the logging process where it will spit back your SAC rate in CFM, but don't really see a benefit in cluttering the menu structure as well as increasing the risk of someone suing them for putting the wrong tank in which is BS, but wouldn't shock me

7) no, it wasn't a type-o, however if you code in 30' last stop, and you have gases that exceed your ppO2 limits, the computer has to spit a warning back out to you saying "hey dumb-a$$, you turned on 99/00 but you have a last stop of 30' so you can't use it". What does the computer do in that instance? Does it give you TTS based on the fact that you activated a gas that you can't breathe at that depth, does it ignore it? Anything over 20' doesn't have any gas restrictions in it, but below 20' does. I think it definitely opens up the added complexity game due to the gases and whether the difference in TTS is going to be different enough to make it worthwhile.

60mins at 150ft on 21/35 with EAN80 as a deco gas, and 50/80
Last stop 30ft.
Total dive time, 159 mins.
Last stop 20ft
Total Dive time 158 minutes
If you're regularly doing more of a deco obligation than that, it may be enough of a difference for you, but I don't think that 1 minute really matters. On EAN80 the difference is so small that you set it to final stop of 20ft, complete that 20ft stop at 30ft, and the TTS isn't enough of a difference for it to be worthwhile

What profiles are you doing where the difference in TTS is large enough to be a problem?

 

[stuartv]

I just realized another wish:

8) Change the top row (in OC Tec mode) so that the "Stop" field is "smart". Use that space to show NDL until you go into deco. Then change to showing the Stop. Maybe use color-coding of the field heading itself to make sure the diver notices that it changed from showing NDL to showing Stop.

That would free up space on the bottom row, since it would not need to show NDL anymore. Then I could have GF shown on the bottom row, next to the Active gas...