Skip SDI Advanced Adventure (AOW) and go straight to specialties

[CptTightPants21]

TDI is the most complete course of Nitrox, you clearly don't know what are you talking about, that is if you want to learn all the aspects of Nitrox, you Take the Online course and you will learn all there is to learn about Nitrox to 40%, you don't need to go the Tec Dive way to take this course, the OP already said he don't want to go that route.

You want to go the easier way then I guess go the CptTP way.

Solo diver brings a ton more than Intro to Tec for the OP, just read the course curriculum in the web site, deploying a SMB is deploying a SMB in Tec or in Rec.

My Nitrox course was between 6-8 hours of classroom instruction and 2 checkout dives. It covered tables, maths, safety procedures, O2 cleaning procedure, it even had a nice practical portion-- hard to get more thorough than that for 40% nitrox. Guess what? Wasn’t TDI. To spout TDI as the end all, be all is just ignorant and nowhere in my post was the word “easier” used or even hinted at.


Solo is not a course where one learns how to dive, buoyancy, trim, stability, and control, or the place where a student is introduced to radically new material. Solo is a course that may introduce a mild change in technique and is there to confirm that you already possess the skill level necessary to dive solo. Here is an article from one of our more experienced posters.


NWGratefulDiver.com


Article and facts aside, Solo is a 1 day course. Intro to Tech/fundies/equivalent is a 2, 3, or even 4 day course. How do you reconcile the line “Solo brings a ton more than intro to tech” in your mind?

 

[topher10]

I wanted to thank people for the responses and posts. The discussion has answered my questions. For what its worth here is my summary.

1. My main question was whether the SDI Advanced Adventure Diver (AAD) was a required step before taking additional specialties. The answer is that it is not officially required, because at least two people posted that went straight to the specialties for reasons that would mirror my own. Of course, any individual shop/instructor might have a different opinion, but I have a basis to argue with them.

2. Would it be smart to skip AAD/AOW? I think that is debatable. As Jim Lapenta points out, some OAW type classes are much more than a ‘survey’, and provide an excellent base on which to build. In addition, if the person only wanted the ‘advanced’ cert to open additional dive opportunities, then AAD/AOW is good enough. However, if a person is already committed to doing additional specialties, then perhaps AAD/OAW is unnecessary.

3. Why the focus on SDI, when you could do the same with PADI? Two reasons: 1) For whatever reason SDI has chosen to use different words (AAD vs OAW) to describe this course. Although SDI AAD and PADI AOW are equivalent courses, it hard to predict how a specific dive op would view it (I think this is CptTP’s point). 2) SDI has also created this intermediate step which they call ‘Advanced Diver’ that is halfway to Master and doesn’t really have a PADI equivalent. 4 specialties and 25 dives. So it gives a pretty easy benchmark to hit and for some reason that attracted my attention. I recognize that its meaningless in regards to gaining access to ‘advanced’ dives.

So my thinking ultimately is this:
Option A: This spring do Nitrox and AAD/OAW (any agency). At that point I can do most dives that I am interested in, and that would probably mark the end of my training as far as things that I ‘need. If so, perhaps it would be best to do PADI/NAUI, since they are more commonly accepted and understood. Specialties are still an option down the road if I am want, as its Master Diver, etc.

Option B: This Spring do SDI Nitrox and SDI Deep. This fall or next Spring do SDI Nav and SDI Intro to Tech (or some other combo). At that point I will be SDI Advanced Diver and will only need Rescue and a few more dives to be considered SDI Master. If I am going this direction anyway, then I see no reason to bother with Advanced Adventure Diver.

Of course, the same could be said for PADI; skip AOW and go straight to specialties and master. But since there would be no 'Advanced' card through PADI until Master Diver, it makes more sense to do AOW in the normal PADI progression (maybe its required?). Plus because PADI requires a 5th specialty for Master, SDI Master in essence requires 2 fewer courses if you skip AAD. SDI Master = 4 specialties+rescue+50 Dives. PADI Master = AOW + 5 specialties + Rescue + 50 Dives. That is probably not a good reason to chose one over the other, though.

So ultimately I need to decide what I want in terms of my diving and my ultimate training goals. I am a bit of a nerd and enjoy instruction/classes, so perhaps option B fits my personality. But in the end I just want to enjoy diving and be safe doing it. I had never paid much attention to SDI until recently, so it was good to get my questions answered.

Thanks again.

 

[stuartv]

One last thought: If you're willing to do 2 classes each year, as you've said, well, I note that SDI Computer Nitrox is just a 1 evening class. So, maybe for this Spring, you could find an evening to do Nitrox and then do 2 proper classes. E.g. Deep and Wreck. Maybe even find an instructor that will teach them as a combined course.

The Nitrox class is so short that, depending on where you take it, it is also really cheap. The shop where I took it normally charges $130, but they have (or had, anyway, I don't KNOW whether they still offer it) a special, one night per month, where they offer SDI Computer Nitrox for half price for anyone that wants to take it that specific night. It took me one evening and cost $65.

If you're in the northern VA area, you could take the BAREG U-boat Diving course. That would get you SDI Deep and SDI Wreck all in one course, while also giving you additional education on WWI and WWII German submarines (e.g. SIGINT, Command and Control, Tactics, etc.). And a field trip to dive an actual U-boat sunk in action off the coast of NC. And it's an inexpensive course. Disclaimer: I am a member of BAREG.

If you're not around here, you could still probably find an instructor that would teach Deep and Wreck as a combined course. As I said before, the Wreck course (in my case, as part of the U-boat course) was the most valuable course I took before I started tech training. Learning how to shoot a bag, run a reel, along with the related work on buoyancy and trim, was great. Running a reel, through a tunnel with a turn in it, made of PVC pipes in a pool, while wearing a blindfold, including reversing at the end and taking the line back up (still blindfolded), was fun and great training. Diving the U-352 at the end of the course was also pretty dang cool.

 

[Bob DBF]

Option A: This spring do Nitrox and AAD/OAW (any agency). At that point I can do most dives that I am interested in, and that would probably mark the end of my training as far as things that I ‘need. If so, perhaps it would be best to do PADI/NAUI, since they are more commonly accepted and understood. Specialties are still an option down the road if I am want, as its Master Diver, etc.

With 15 dives under your belt, I believe this would be the most prudent choice. The reason most divers take AOW is for the dive boats, and a Deep cert would probably suffice. In the case of a new/inexperienced diver, I believe it would be in their best interest to take other specialties and have more experience before taking the deep specialty. As you dive things will go wrong, mostly little and annoying, as you go deeper it does not get easier or less dangerous. In my mind, a diver does not want to be diving beyond their abilities even though they believe it is within their comfort zone due to their training.

Of course I started diving when diving was dangerous and sex was safe.



Bob
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Because a diver is certified to make a dive does not mean they are qualified to make the dive.

 

[topher10]

Thank you Bob for the suggestion. I take the statement in your signature to heart. I have already found myself on one dive that was borderline regarding my training/experience (deeper than expected), and that is partly driving my interest in additional training.

I would ask you (and others) for your opinion on the follow up question:
In which setting would I be a more qualified diver at the end of training, just assuming a typical instructor/class environment.
A) Complete Nitrox and AOW through PADI/NAUI.
B) Complete SDI Nitrox, Deep, and Wreck Specialty Courses. Perhaps you recommend a different specialty combo.

Maybe that is not a fair question as there are too many variables and B is 3 courses, but that is sorta where I am. Of course a strong instructor trumps most of the other considerations.

I could add:
C) Complete A followed 1 year later by PADI Deep and Wreck
D) Complete B followed 1 year later by SDI NAV and Intro to Tech.

I guess lets say I have 2 goals for diving in future (2-5 years away) besides just my normal diving. I probably should have put this in the original post.
1. Flower Gardens Liveaboard (In 2018)
2. USS Oriskany (within 5 years: without decompression diving, so just diving to the rec limit and above)

I point out that I am not really after the certs per se. I want the training that will be best suited to allowing me to safely go on these types of dives. If I don't need extra training to do these dives (beyond AOW), then that would be good information to know.

I appreciate all the advice.

 

[stuartv]

I guess lets say I have 2 goals for diving in future (2-5 years away) besides just my normal diving. I probably should have put this in the original post.
1. Flower Gardens Liveaboard (In 2018)
2. USS Oriskany (within 5 years: without decompression diving, so just diving to the rec limit and above)

I point out that I am not really after the certs per se. I want the training that will be best suited to allowing me to safely go on these types of dives. If I don't need extra training to do these dives (beyond AOW), then that would be good information to know.

I appreciate all the advice.

I don't know about the Flower Gardens, but you definitely do not NEED anything more than Nitrox and AOW to do recreational dives on the Oriskany. I would recommend spending some time practicing deploying an SMB from depth before doing any ocean diving, but you don't have to take a class to learn how to do that. And, even if you don't know how to do it from depth, as long as you take an SMB, even if you just limit yourself to getting it out and inflating it on the surface, that should be fine for diving the Oriskany. The dive boats don't even go out to the O unless seas are pretty calm (i.e. less than 5' seas or so). Plus, at recreational depths, the area you have to explore on the O is relatively small, so it's not likely you'd get lost or surface way far away from the boat.

 

[topher10]

Maybe 'need' was the wrong word.

My impression is that Flower Gardens is more benign than Oriskany, depending on weather conditions

 

[stuartv]

Well, in my opinion - as a relatively INexperienced diver, myself, and certainly not an instructor, what you need most is to feel comfortable doing the dive. And you need enough education so that if you're comfortable it's because you do actually understand the dive. I.e. it's not the comfort born of ignorance.

You could get that knowledge and comfort level by doing AOW. But you could also do full Deep and Wreck and 100 dives to boot and still NOT feel comfortable with it. That's up to you.

Nitrox and AOW with a competent instructor SHOULD give you everything you need to do a recreational dive on the Oriskany - especially if you choose Wreck for one of your AOW elective dives. AOW should give you everything you need EXCEPT possibly the comfort level. Only you can make the final decision on that.

I went to dive the Oriskany just over 1 month ago. I got to the dive boat on the morning of and they informed me we were blown out and going to in-shore sites instead. So, I haven't actually been to the O myself. I just read it up on it as much as possible. And was blown out because they were expecting 5' seas. So, it seems to me that if you can get out there, you'll have warm-ish to warm water, good visibility, relatively calm (by my standards, anyway) seas, and a small-ish (at rec depths), well-prepared-for-divers dive site. The worst likely thing to have to deal with is if there turns out to be a ripping current. And if there is, well, hang onto the anchor line. But, in those conditions, if you do get blown off the wreck or anchor line, how big a deal is it, really? You're on a recreational dive, so you can go straight to the surface. Seas won't be particularly high. Even if a squall blows through, you'll just have kicked up surface conditions for a little while and get rained on. The water's fairly warm or better. And you have an SMB to inflate. Don't panic and you'll be fine.

Maybe there's something about recreational diving on the O that makes it more challenging than I understand. If so, I hope someone will enlighten me.

Just my $0.02.

 

[topher10]

Well, one of the shops I am considering is MBT divers, and they have specific experience with Oriskany. I think they were recruited in the initial efforts to document its sinking, and have been involved in other aspects ever since. They also offer a specific training course for the Oriskany. USS Oriskany

So if I go that route I would hope to be in good hands and get good advice.

Thanks again.

 

[Remy B.]

If you like the theory and to study and are a little of a nerd, take the Online TDI nitrox, you still will meet a Instructor in order to get the certification and if you have questions he will answer and if you fail a question he will go thru it to clarified, he will supervise you or teach you how to check your EAN tanks, whatever the instructor brings in extra is a plus.

To me AOW is just a course that will give you a little of everything but will not go in deep of what each speciality is about, it will be more about basics.

It all depends of your perpective, you want to learn it good, take the long route, it will bring you more dives and teach you a lot more than AOW, you don't have enough time and don't want to miss a boat trip then go for the AOW directly, it all depends how you want to approach it.

I did my homework and researched, course content, and study material, online TDI Nitrox is the most complete, TDI books are a good resourse, I had could choose Padi, or SDI, but they were too simple to my eyes.

With online courses there are no skiping of anything, there is no instructor ignoring things he believe are not needed or not as important regarding theory, write down any extraquestions you have for when you meet him.