Skipping Hydro

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that was a question i had when i did the inspection course reguarding transporting tanks. i do have a cdl with a hazmat, and didnt want to be fined for not having a bill of lading.

again you can interpet the laws how you want, but if you do get caught and have to go to court to fight the ticket, i wish you the best. the goverment has the money and the lawyers for cases like this, i sure dont.

the decision falls on you if this is the choice you make not to hydro your tanks. but as far as the guy paying $50 for a hydro that is a rip off. shouldnt cost you more then 30 to get it hyrdo'ed. just keep in mind if you take your tank somewhere else to get it filled, they wont do it with an expired hydro.
 
I'm just telling you what I have been told, and what I have seen in the field. And all federal regulations apply even if your not crossing state lines. You still need a log, med card, and follow all the rest of the laws.

You can interpret the laws anyway you want, its your right. But just remember, its how the guy with the badge, the robe, and 12 people on the bench thinks it works.

I have had some conversation with DOT and they just will not give a clear answer.
They say a privately owned, filled and transported tank does not fall under DOT regulation in one breath and in the next breath say that a DOT spec cylinder that is not in hydro can not be filled or transported. So which is it, it appears they are hedging their bets.
 
Captain
I feel your pain, I have been on the wrong end of a DOT stick. When towing, you find your self in a lot of gray areas. Its not fun, this is one of those gray areas. You will find the true answer if something bad happens. And that answer can change case by case. That is why I always suggest following CFR's as close as one can.
 
The underlying theme here is that DOT laws fall under the ICC and thus are subject only if money exchanges hands.

Transporting and filling your own private tanks with your own compressor obviously doesn't fall into that category but if you're doing it in the course of your employ, you would be subject to DOT laws, as you would if you filled a tank for money.

But as was implied earlier, I don't want some local yokel thinking he just made the bust of the century if he inspects my tanks going to the dive site.
 
I have had some conversation with DOT and they just will not give a clear answer.
They say a privately owned, filled and transported tank does not fall under DOT regulation in one breath and in the next breath say that a DOT spec cylinder that is not in hydro can not be filled or transported. So which is it, it appears they are hedging their bets.
It is typical government speak and is an artifact of previous administrations and a resulting conflict between the "hands off" don't tell states or other entities what to do" approach demanded by those administrations and existing regulations that were intended to tell states and agencies exactly what to do.

This is not strictly a DOT issues but appleis to several govenrment agencies. The result is a middle of the road fence sitting type of behavior where most guidance given is informal and done only in response to a direct written request or in the course of making a formal compliance finding. And in those cases, any letters of response or compliance findings that are drafted are written so as to narrowly apply to the precise situation so that they cannot be generalized to other similar situations and consequently be construed as formal guidance telling anyone what to do.

This gets real interesting when someone in the field cites someone for violating a regulation for which the guidance is unclear. Fair or not, in most cases the violation will still be viewed as the defendant's fault and at a minimum they are going to have to spend money lawyering up to defend themselves. To make it worse, enforcement tends to wax and wane with changes in administration or agency officials who ask for more or less based on politics or personal beliefs.

Sometimes it is simply something petty like a field inspector trying to make a name for himself (ie. Airshow pilot Bob Hoover losing his medical certificate and his livelihood and taking years to get it back because the FAA inspector who started it just wanted a high profile case to get recognized.)

In terms of the DOT, an individual inspector, regional office or the agency itself at one point in time or another, may take the approach that the hydro requirement applies to any tank that could potentially be used in interstate commerce, since even the current owner/user/fill station has no way of knowing if the tank may be used in interstate commerce in the future.

Consequently, in the extreme if a shop fills a tank that is out of hydro an inspector could decide it is a violation as the tank is capable of being used in interstate commerce and/or that the shop has no real way of knowing that the owner/user will not in fact use it in interstate commerce.
 
I usually have pretty good luck getting info direct from the DOT. If it matters, write them and ask for a Letter of Interpretation.

DOT people usually assume when you ask questions that you are asking about things as they are under DOT regulation. So if you say "is this or that tank legal under this or that conditions" they will generally answer whether it is under DOT rules. But if you ask, does this tank even come under DOT regulations, then they may answer quite differently.

Oh, 49 171.1 says

(d) Functions not subject to the requirements of the HMR. The following are examples of activities to which the HMR do not apply:
(6) Transportation of a hazardous material by an individual for non-commercial purposes in a private motor vehicle, including a leased or rented motor vehicle.

Pretty hard to get much clearer than that.

Another thing to keep in mind it that there are no "cylinder cops" going around looking for petty violations of the DOT regs. Yes, the DOT does have an enforcement branch, but you will look long and hard for an instance of them ticketing an individual diver - or a dive shop for that matter! - for filling or transporting and out-of-hydro or overfilled tank.

As far as the DOT goes, if a tank doesn't fall under DOT jurisdiction, then it really doesn't matter whether it is a spec, or a exemption, homemade, or a commie rebreather flask - it just isn't their concern.


I have had some conversation with DOT and they just will not give a clear answer.
They say a privately owned, filled and transported tank does not fall under DOT regulation in one breath and in the next breath say that a DOT spec cylinder that is not in hydro can not be filled or transported. So which is it, it appears they are hedging their bets.
 
The owner of Sebastian Dive Center in Sebastian Florida was decapitated as he filled a steel out of Hydro tank. This was well discussed on Scubaboard at the time

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/4400-dive-shop-owner-killed-exploding-tank.html Sure go and fill your tank without Hydro. It might ruin your family's day. Or maybe not.
 
The thinking was.

The difference of selling these two HP120 with one year of hydro remaining (I am sure I can get ~$250 each) and then buy new ($360 each). That is a difference of $220 for two HP120 replacement. By having these the old tank hydro ($50 each). The net difference is $120.

How about you keep your tanks, have them hydrotested, and send me the $120 difference? Same thing....I mean as long as you are giving money away:rolleyes:
 
What are the long term / short terms effect(s) of skipping hydro?

One advantage is that it can make visuals MUCH easier to perform-



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