Sometimes optimism isn't enough

[TMHeimer]

It is kind of eyebrow-raising, the whole DM thing in the United States. You pay for the class, pay for your insurance, pay all your own expenses to show up and help with classes, and volunteer your time. I often wonder why anyone does it, except that, often, helping people learn to dive is fun.

Agree on this much debated topic. We have a ton of instructors and DMs, but we are the only PADI shop for a long way. I'm luck to get the little DMing that I do.

 

[Scott]

I guess I never got straight answers from anyone, the shop was really cool to cut me a break, however the impending cost of
1. Taking the test fee $90 (Found this out from a friend who's DM'ing)
2. Certification fee ? ( Do you pay for your first year?) And what does it cost per year ?
3. Insurance $300 or so.
4. Those hidden charges you find out about at the end of the program. (Just a place holder)

Not sure what the $90 test fee is all about unless it is the initial application fee or the store is scamming you.
Add another fee if you wish to become a DSD Leader allowing you to conduct DSD's
One other "fee" would be additional gear expense should the store you work for require you wear inline gear.

The DM's I work with all get paid hourly for store promotional DSD's, for other DSD's and programs (skin diving, snorkeling, scuba reviews) they receive a per head portion of the cost. Any assisting with Open Water and above is at the Instructor expense.

I'll probably make that back at some point as we get $300 to assist an OW course.

A DM assisting me a full class of 8 for the all the confined water and open water sessions could make $300 if their good. A class of six would be less and 10 would be more.

I hate "hidden" costs. The expectations and realities of being a DM, which include fees, I will cover in an orientation session before they even purchase books. Potential Candidates can then take that information and make their own decision.

Sorry you never got straight answers from anyone.

 

[tdtaylor]

I'm a SSI DM, and the costs were not as high. The course was a flat $595, which included all the materials, tests, etc. Air fills for the DMC and above are taken care of by the shop, so no fee there. The worst cost was when accompanying a class, the $20-35 per day to enter the quarry. Bascially the DM cost me in the range of $800 all cost tallied.

Our insurance is group insurance, so $80 per year. SSI fees are annual (I believe) $75 per year, the first year included in the course fee.

We were at this for 6 months, with lots of time in the water, lots of time with the Instructor, so I didn't find the fee unreasonable. At least with my shop, it is clear what is included. For the time involved, I did not think the shop was making much- rather preparing those who they selected to move up and fill the staff's ranks.

Wrapping up my DiveCon cert this month, and the course fee was slightly less- but lots of time with the Instructor, who is fabulous.

Terry

 

[bracko]

It is kind of eyebrow-raising, the whole DM thing in the United States. You pay for the class, pay for your insurance, pay all your own expenses to show up and help with classes, and volunteer your time. I often wonder why anyone does it, except that, often, helping people learn to dive is fun.

Sydney rarely pay their DM's and I'm yet to hear of a shop in Adelaide that is interested in entertaining the thought of a non-shop trained DM.

I kept track of my costs throughout the course and the "after costs" of the course were pretty much 100% ontop of the course, if you include petrol and parking.

 

[whaleboy]

I liked all the inputs, and its great to get perspectives.
If I had the power to change something, it would be to publish all costs and responsibilities for the PADI DM, Assistant and OWSI programs up front.
So if you even begin to consider it, a brochure would be placed into your hands.
Make it mandatory, like a good dive plan.

 

[SubMariner]

In regards to PADI DM.
I have been to 3 OW / DSD classes so far where I helped out and assisted. I enjoyed it thoroughly, training others is one thing I seem to be fairly good at. The material is not an issue nor is my instructor, he is one of the best. My issue is the cost. I guess I never got straight answers from anyone, the shop was really cool to cut me a break, however the impending cost of
1. Taking the test fee $90 (Found this out from a friend who's DM'ing)
2. Certification fee ? ( Do you pay for your first year?) And what does it cost per year ?
3. Insurance $300 or so.
4. Those hidden charges you find out about at the end of the program. (Just a place holder)

So far I sank a few hundred in materials and tuition and I am contemplating jumping ship, cut my losses and move on. :depressed:
Thing is, how do normal worker bee's afford this? $400 + just to stay certified and insured per year.
Everyone I met, and that includes the instructors, except for the IDC, say I will not make money at this, and I will never break even.
Its a love it and do it attitude, because its fun, etc...if you have the money to burn.

I understand pricing something high enough to keep the riff raff out, and make it so that you have to be serious or well off to continue
up the PADI Pro ladder, but its hurting those of us who can make a difference and do the sport and the environment, some good.

I liked all the inputs, and its great to get perspectives.
If I had the power to change something, it would be to publish all costs and responsibilities for the PADI DM, Assistant and OWSI programs up front.
So if you even begin to consider it, a brochure would be placed into your hands.
Make it mandatory, like a good dive plan.

Firstly, the "Test Fee" the shop is talking about is something that THEY are doing. While it is customary to charge a fee to take the course, that usually covers all the materials, testing, etc. What it usually DOESN'T cover is additional confined or open water charges if the shop has to rent additional pool time or boat trips; additional air fills, and the like.

You are responsible for your own PADI membership fees, just as you have been all along. Initially, this was just the cost of your PIC to get your card. Now that you are going Pro, you are required to be a professional member of PADI. Call PADI to find out what your yearly dues are: (800) 729-7234.

If you want to teach DM-led programs, you will need liability insurance. There are a number of sources for this like Witherspoon, Willis, Vincenzia & Buckley. Each one will give you their own quote. Alternately, if you are working through a shop, they should cover you through their own insurance.

Once you are a certified DM, it is up to you whether or not you want to pay to keep your membership updated &/or be insured. You CAN retain your membership without being in Teaching status by simply paying your PADI membership dues. However, you would not be able to teach any DM-led programs without insurance unless you are working for a shop who will cover you under their policy. Likewise, if you work as a Certified (teaching) Assistant in courses, you would be covered under the shop's policy.

Frankly, there are too many cost variables for PADI to put out a brochure. EACH shop or Instructor is free to charge whatever price they wish for their DM course; it has nothing to do with PADI as a certifying agency. It's only when you decide to go to Instructor that PADI directly has input into the fees associated with the Instructor Evaluation because THEY are the ones who administer it.

At this point I would suggest doing a little research into what PADI shops are charging for the DM course in your area. Talk with the shop, the Instructors who will be training you, people who have taken the DM courses. THEN you will be in a position to make a more informed decision.

Bonne chance,

 

[TMHeimer]

Our shop doesn't have a group plan for Instructors or DMs. I would guess all of us are insured with PADI's recommended company, Hub International. I believe the total package for DMs is around $200-- a fair bit more for instructors. I pay $142/yr. to be insured only as an assistant (the instructor's insurance doesn't cover DMs working a class with him/her). Without the full plan I can't teach DSD and would not be covered to DM a charter.

 

[whaleboy]

Firstly, the "Test Fee" the shop is talking about is something that THEY are doing. While it is customary to charge a fee to take the course, that usually covers all the materials, testing, etc. What it usually DOESN'T cover is additional confined or open water charges if the shop has to rent additional pool time or boat trips; additional air fills, and the like.

You are responsible for your own PADI membership fees, just as you have been all along. Initially, this was just the cost of your PIC to get your card. Now that you are going Pro, you are required to be a professional member of PADI. Call PADI to find out what your yearly dues are: (800) 729-7234.

If you want to teach DM-led programs, you will need liability insurance. There are a number of sources for this like Witherspoon, Willis, Vincenzia & Buckley. Each one will give you their own quote. Alternately, if you are working through a shop, they should cover you through their own insurance.

Once you are a certified DM, it is up to you whether or not you want to pay to keep your membership updated &/or be insured. You CAN retain your membership without being in Teaching status by simply paying your PADI membership dues. However, you would not be able to teach any DM-led programs without insurance unless you are working for a shop who will cover you under their policy. Likewise, if you work as a Certified (teaching) Assistant in courses, you would be covered under the shop's policy.

Frankly, there are too many cost variables for PADI to put out a brochure. EACH shop or Instructor is free to charge whatever price they wish for their DM course; it has nothing to do with PADI as a certifying agency. It's only when you decide to go to Instructor that PADI directly has input into the fees associated with the Instructor Evaluation because THEY are the ones who administer it.

At this point I would suggest doing a little research into what PADI shops are charging for the DM course in your area. Talk with the shop, the Instructors who will be training you, people who have taken the DM courses. THEN you will be in a position to make a more informed decision.

Bonne chance,

Finding out everyone I have talked to, has their own slang for nearly everything Divemaster.
So, no charge to take the PADI Divemaster Final 120 question 2 part test. (I passed this today)
So, the 'test fee', is in reality 'Application Fee' of which PADI charges $ 99 to Divemaster's
submitting their application. In addition, if I want the DSD Intern add $36.
The 'Certification Fee' is the PADI Renewal Fee, which in my case would be $121 next year. (unless they raise it)
If I get crazy and get my EFR Instructor, add $108 to the total. Oh joy.
About insurance. My shop requires that I carry my own insurance, if I do not get
insurance, I am still active with PADI, but cannot assist or run DSD, and so forth.
Well, I am definitely more informed now, and thanks for helping me to ask the right questions.

 

[endurodog]

After reading through this thread let me say. If you are going into the pro side of diving for money, never do it!!!!. The training is expensive and the pay is low. The fees and yearly renewals just keep feeding the money to PADI and insurance. As an instructor you can get ahead of the curve a bit. I work another full time job and teach on the side so income from diving doesn't have to pay the bills. I make enough to cover the base costs and take home a bit too, but not much. As a DM I did make some money but barely enough to cover cost. I live in an area where there is no real leading dives, just assisting with classes.

Now if you love teaching and sharing your love of the sport then go for the pro stuff but understand it's gonna cost you to get in, but it does pay off in other ways. Since cost and benefits vary talk to your shop about cost, insurance and if they are willing to pay you when your training is complete.