Spinoff PADI rumor/Tabel training-necesary?

[Liquid]

I have thout about this subject ever since someone on the Padi Rumor thread said something about the necesity of table training. At first my reaction was-of course it's necesary! how can someone be a diver and not know about using tables?!
Than I gave the subject further thought, and finaly came to an idea-A new certifying level- I call it-

Hollyday Open Water Diver.

The targeted students- People that would like to enroll to a "soft" course. People that would like to dive maibe once a year, in a vocation, and do not want to "encumber" themselves by using tables (after all-when diving once a year, you can really remeber how to use it!!!).

The reason- Well, like said above- people forget it. And another thing, not everyone is to bright you know!!! some people just can't do the tables. They are pushed through the course, they are certified, yet they will never use a table, simply becouse they do not understand it.

The limitation-There is only one limitation, but it is a MAJOR one-This certificate, will certify the divers to dive only with certified dive leaders (i.e dive-masters/divecons/instructors etc.). As "Holiday divers" do usualy dive only in guided dives, with a leader, for this crowd, the limitation is absolutly nothing they will feel.

Well- that's about it.
What do YOU think about it?
sugestions?
ideas?

 

[Spectre]

Originally posted by Liquid
The reason- Well, like said above- people forget it. And another thing, not everyone is to bright you know

I've got two words. Natural Selection. I'm a big fan of Darwinism, as long as it doesn't effect my dive insurance premiums...

 

[MikeFerrara]

We already have such a cert. The PADI Scuba Diver cert is a portion of the open water course and permits one to dive with a DM or instructor. A basic open water cert usually amounts to little more anyway. Most people learn to dive with a vacation in mind. The dives are well rehersed the boat crew conucts the same dives daily. They are easy and there is ample supervision. Vacation divers dive this way for years and never have a problem or get to know very much about diving. I call this underwater tourism not diving. The sad part is when some of these divers get feeling like they know what they are doing and go beyond their abilities and get hurt. This happens more often than many would believe.

 

[ChrisF]

Isn't this effectively what a resort course is?

And BTW, I am generally in favor of resort courses as long as they are conducted with proper safey precautions in mind.

A resort course is what hooked me on diving 13 years ago. I probably would have never commited to a 4-week open water class if I hadn't gotten a glimse of how cool diving was during that resort course.

 

[Liquid]

Enlighten me please- What does it mean exactly resort course?

If you mean to say that it is a course that takes a week, in a resort, than what is wrong with that course?

Most of the courses I tought were tought this way. Everyday we have classroom theory for several hours, a launch break, and than 2 dives. I do belive that nothing was wrong with that.

 

[Spectre]

Originally posted by Liquid
If you mean to say that it is a course that takes a week, in a resort, than what is wrong with that course?

No. We're talking more like "Don't stop breathing. Don't rocket to the surface. Stay with me at all times" and then jump in the water. Yea, there a little more extensive than that, but they don't give you certification to dive without a divemaster present.

Here's a link to PADI's course information:

PADI Discover SCUBA Diving

 

[dvleemin]

LOL, when we were in Cuba, they had a resort course going on. It was quite amusing. They did they're pool session in the pool - the problem was the pool was only 3.5' deep.

My fiancee and I went with them for they're first dive as well. Man was it scary. Luckily it was only to 30' but I saw 1 diver panic and rush to the surface. I had my mask knocked off by another. And the poor poor coral took a beating. They had about 12 divers down there with one DM, and 2 freedivers on the surface. Not a good situation. I thought for sure something was going to go wrong, and stuck around in case some thing went wrong - it was not a fun dive.

I don't think resort courses are a good idea if the dive is going to take place where the coral can be damaged. IMO, without at least basic bouyency skills, they shouldn't be out there.

DArryl

 

[MikeS]

Does table training mean:
The concepts of nitrogen loading?
The concepts of DCS?
The concept of dive planning to reduce the risk of DCS?
Using a table(s) to plan a dive to reduce the risk of DCS?
Or all of the above?

In my opinion the concepts of nitrogen loading, DCS, and dive planning are extremely important. Anyone without a knowledge of these concepts should be strongly discouraged from diving other than under the direct supervision of a qualified instructor.

But these concepts could be taught using a computer for dive planning rather than a table. For example, when I first took trigonometry we had to use tables in the back of the textbook to make calculations. Today they use calculators (basically a computer) and the textbook doesn’t even have the tables.

However, putting my irrational, compulsive need to defend the use of dive computers aside for a moment, I think it’s important that training address the lowest common denominator. At this time that’s table(s), SPG, pressure gauge, and timer. It’s the least expensive option and what your likely to get if you rent equipment. So, until the price of dive computers drops to the point where they are less expensive than table(s), SPG, pressure gauge, and timer they probably won’t and shouldn’t go away. But hopefully it won’t be long!

Mike

 

[ChrisF]

Originally posted by dvleemin

I don't think resort courses are a good idea if the dive is going to take place where the coral can be damaged. IMO, without at least basic bouyency skills, they shouldn't be out there.

DArryl

Sure. There are some basic skills that should be taught and mastered in a pool setting before heading out to open water.

My resort course took 3 days. We spent 2 or 3 hours in the pool on the first day learning some basic skills. Stuff like mask clearing and basic boyancy. It wasn't pretty, but we at least had a clue before we were done.

The pool was 6-8 feet deep. We were told to keep breathing, stay with the instructor, monitor your air, and don't bolt to the surface. We didn't learn anything about DCS, tables, computers, or physiology.

On the following day we did a shallow shore dive (<25 feet) where we just stuck to the instructor like glue and got more comfortable with the gear.

The second day we did a deeper (50-something foot) dive. Again, with the instructor right there at all times. In retrospect, the second dive was kind of deep for not knowing what the heck we were doing, but based on our performance on the shore dive, the instructor felt comfortable with us.

I was hooked after the first 2 minutes of the first shore dive It was so cool, I knew right then that I was going to go on and take a real class.

 

[MikeFerrara]

In the PADI Discover Scuba Diving program (resort course) the max allowable depth is 40 ft. For the Scuba Diver cert which is pre-entry level and requires that you dive with a DM the max depth is also 40 ft. In each program you must complete confined water 1 and confined water 1-3 respectivly. Resorts cheat on these programs all the time. FYI.