Student brings BP/W to OW class.

[Some X Dry]

Here's my experience with this...

In my open water class, gear rental was free. You got a jacket BC, regs, and AL80, set it up, and hit the pool. None of the 14-or-so students (yes, it was a big class, no need to go off topic on that...) questioned it. Well except for me.

The diving bug bit me hard. I finished my OW texts within 2 weeks of starting the 4-week class and, being a central Florida gal and wanting to be a better diver, started in on "Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving". Whoa, apparently there's another way to skin this cat...

So, sufficiently brainwashed (I kid, I kid), show up to my next class early with a backplate and harness I picked up on Craigslist for super cheap (no wing) and ask my instructor if he could explain to me how it all goes together. He's pretty accepting and, to my surprise, lets me borrow a wing he has lying around.

Then he asks, "You wanna try a steel tank?"
"Sure!"
"Wait, that's a DIN. You need a different reg. You wanna try this one?" (hands me a $1500 Titanium Atomic reg)...
"Uh, yeah, sure!" It was like Christmas!

I hit the pool all decked out and remember descending and immediately being "thrown" into a horizontal position and thinking "Oh, THAT'S what they mean by TRIM!" And I never went back.

I was very grateful to have an accommodating instructor who didn't mind my being the oddball in the class. He had much the same attitude as most instructors who have commented. It's a BCD, it's not rocket science. (Or neuroscience ) He dove one, so he was plenty familiar. No big deal for him... but great experience for me.

Everyone, Please meet my Beautiful GF who this thread was written about. Did not expect, although not surprised, she posted. And no you can't have her she is my dive buddy... Unless of course she want's to dive with you. :cool2:

 

[Thalassamania]

I've taught students with no float of any sort, MaeWests, Horse Collars, BCs, ABLJs, BCDs, BP/Ws ... I really can't see why it matters which they show up with, except from a standards perspective.

 

[Peter_C]

My partner started in a drysuit (She would have never dove with me again if she had worn a wetsuit), BP/W, bungee backup, 5ft hose (7ft hose will come later when we introduce the can light), and a hip mounted pressure gauge. We spent some time in the pool doing don and doff, reg exchange/recovery etc, then one of our friends gave her private lessons for a very reasonable fee. The instructor tried her Freedom Plate on a dive and loved it! As a thank you for spending an extra day due to minor issues, we gave the instructor her own Freedom Plate that she is diving daily in Fiji right now :cool2:

 

[Peter Guy]

Thal wrote

I really can't see why it matters which they show up with, except from a standards perspective.

Devon made a comment about downloading manuals.

To both I reply -- Yes, you are correct, there ARE ways of getting the information AS LONG AS one has the time to do it. BUT, when the student shows up with their "brand new gear" which has just been sold to them by the LDS, it can be a thrash -- especially IF the "brand new gear" hasn't been properly fitted and it is not obvious how to make it fit (if that is possible).

So Thal, yes, the gear CAN matter because if it isn't fitting (and fitted) properly, it makes the student's job so much harder -- which makes MY job so much harder.

Gear does matter -- SOMETIMES -- and gear that is different (for example, the evil I-3) can throw a monkey-wrench into what would otherwise be a very pleasant teaching opportunity.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Gear does matter -- SOMETIMES -- and gear that is different (for example, the evil I-3) can throw a monkey-wrench into what would otherwise be a very pleasant teaching opportunity.

There are not just a few variables along this line of thought; including the owner of a dive business that does instruction and the instructor who is not just an employee of said business.

I have worked as employee for 6 recreational dive operators and there have been only 4-5 back inflate BC's for me to put students in, all in XL or XXL; no BP/W's. As an independent instructor, I own 1 back inflate BC and I'm only aware of 1 XL back inflate BC that I could rent for a student (there may be another couple, but I've never asked that shop).

Over the course of 10 years, no dive outfit I've been closely associated with even rents gear with Air2-ish alternates; it's 99.9% vest BC's and 40" yellow hose alternates.

To a man and woman; all my current and previous dive employers would at an OW student with even an Air2, much more so a BP/W.

And it is not just because they do not understand a BP/W; over the lifetime of a dive business it is often safer just to stay in your wheelhouse. The same operator can and does sometimes have less than one year experienced instructors working alongside ex tech diving business owners, both working the same "dive instructor" job. Everyone uses the same gear for beginning OW so is not everyone safer?

 

[Thalassamania]

Thal wrote

Devon made a comment about downloading manuals.

To both I reply -- Yes, you are correct, there ARE ways of getting the information AS LONG AS one has the time to do it. BUT, when the student shows up with their "brand new gear" which has just been sold to them by the LDS, it can be a thrash -- especially IF the "brand new gear" hasn't been properly fitted and it is not obvious how to make it fit (if that is possible).

So Thal, yes, the gear CAN matter because if it isn't fitting (and fitted) properly, it makes the student's job so much harder -- which makes MY job so much harder.

Gear does matter -- SOMETIMES -- and gear that is different (for example, the evil I-3) can throw a monkey-wrench into what would otherwise be a very pleasant teaching opportunity.

No floatation - doesn't have to fit. MaeWest - one size pretty much fits all. Horse Collar - two straps might have to be adjusted, maybe 90 seconds total. ABLJ - see Horse Collar. BCD - size and fit are important. BP/W - If assembled properly pull on the waist strap and adjust the crotch strap (if there is one), maybe 60 seconds. Moral of the story: Ban BCDs, way to much trouble and confusion.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I feel I must take issue with blanket statements that make all new student divers out to be incapable of understanding or learning other equipment configurations during an OW class. Statements like it is "easier on the new student diver" for one.

hit the pool all decked out and remember descending and immediately being "thrown" into a horizontal position and thinking "Oh, THAT'S what they mean by TRIM!" And I never went back.

Everyone, Please meet my Beautiful GF who this thread was written about. Did not expect, although not surprised, she posted. And no you can't have her she is my dive buddy... Unless of course she want's to dive with you. :cool2:

Perhaps you are putting your own twist on the meaning of someone else's statement of "easier on the new student diver"....

If one is hoping to "easily" teach new divers about controlling their body position under water the differences in design between back inflate BC's and vest BC's do make some things easier and some things harder.

 

[Some X Dry]

halemano,

Perhaps I am, perhaps not. Believe the statements intent is clear to the majority. But here is another way to look at it.. Ignorance is not a symptom of stupidity. Stupidity does however hinder some ignorant. IMO it's stupid to speak or think of the ignorant as stupid.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Perhaps I am, perhaps not. Believe the statements intent is clear to the majority.

So just to clarify; the statement we have been discussing in this tangent is ....

"easier on the new student diver"

If that is the statement we are discussing, is it not the "vast majority" that are the one's making that statement?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

What is "easier for the student" and does it matter? As with nearly everything, there is likely a bell curve, with the "vast majority" covered by the generalities of "easier for the student."

When I decided to learn how to slalom water ski, I had unlimited fuel at my disposal. Every day I cared to I could fill up a 5 gal can of gas and ride my motorcycle to the lake. The boat owner who happened to take up my daily 5 gal payments just happened to be the reigning National Barefoot Champ. I had no previous training in slalom water skiing and he had no beginner's slalom skis.

For the first few days I saw other beginners first drop a ski and quickly single ski, then even more quickly start single ski runs with an open back boot where the back foot can adjust balance away from the ski until one is "up" and then slip into the "half boot." All the while I toiled along with the top of the line full competition slalom ski provided by my mentor, locked into the "full back boot", looking like a positively buoyant anchor, swallowing lots of water and sleeping the sound sleep of exhaustion at night.

When I finally mastered "full back boot" starts, my training quickly progressed to "skiing around the boat", even though there was no real reason to learn this trick, much less learn it my first summer of skiing. My mentor went this direction for a number of reasons, not the least of which were that "it entertained him" and "I survived it."

The "vast majority" of new slalom skiers have no desire to "ski around the boat," or even "ski cones," so they have no need to learn how to start in a full back boot; but it does have a much more precise fit and give much better stability.

After learning to start in a full back boot, I was then allowed to try other skis. Another boat owner had an old custom wood ski with very forward mounted bindings. It had a half rear boot, but my Jean Claude Killy influenced style was a magical match and even my mentor advised that I buy that ski.

Unfortunately, I was already a "pro gear" snob and didn't even consider it. Looking back just a few years later, I wished I had bought that ski; I never skied better on any of the much more expensive skis I ever used, including the one I eventually bought. After that first summer with the "pro mentor" I also never found a pilot who would even consider the "skiing around the boat" trick.