"Tank lift" regulator recovery

[ComputerX]

In my open water class I had a really hard time doing the tank lift method of regulator recovery. I didn't much care as the sweep works well for me.

Over the last two days I have been watching open water classes learning the technique, and it doesn't seem to work for many people, at least not as taught. I also tried a few more times, on the surface and kneeling in five feet, and found I had problems. I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of experienced people, especially instructors.

First, with my BCD tightened at the surface, I can't really lift the tank at all. It is locked to me. Once I'm at depth and the wetsuit has compressed I am sure that will change (I will try next time I dive for real,) but in the pool there isn't enough slack to lift. The best I can do is rock it a bit.

Second, as I reach back with my left hand I am moving my right shoulder forward. That few inches of movement makes it much harder to reach the base of the hose.

If I don't lift the tank, I can reach the hose without a problem. But if I try to reach back with my left hand, I can barely reach the hose in a 3mm suit. I don't think I could do it in a 7mm.

This was really driven home with my student yesterday. He had no trouble reaching the hose as long as he didn't try to lift the tank, so I didn't say anything when his left hand was floating. He performed the skill perfectly. One of the other TAs swam over, brought him to the surface, and told him to be sure to lift the tank. "It is, after all, called the Tank Lift Method." He went down (on his knees in 7 feet) to do the skill again. He got the reg in his mouth eventually, but he struggled and flailed a lot. He ended up turtled on the surface and knocked tanks with another student on his way up. Without the lift he did the skill flawlessly. With the lift, it was a mess.

So what am I missing? Is it important to lift the tank at depth once your wetsuit has compressed? Something else? How do you teach it?

TIA.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Don't teach it, I have them get horizontal to recover the reg. After they have gone to their octo. The idea is to get a working reg in their mouth. Then they can recover the primary at leisure or as an open water diver who should not be diving alone to begin with, signal their buddy to grab the primary for them. Don't do any drills on the knees for another thing. Bad habit for them to get into. A lot of places don't have spots where they can kneel to recover a reg or clear a mask.
The lift was optional anyway. If he can do the reach without why would you make him use it? That is more, in my opinion, a way to compensate for too sloppy fitting of a bc or improper gear set up. Set things up right with good fitting gear and it's not necessary in the first place.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[underH2Oman]

I do not teach them to lift the tank. As a second way of recovering the regulator if the arm sweep does not work(and it should) just reach the right hand over the right shoulder and grab a hose pull it forward and you have a regulator. This works as long as the tank is not positioned too low on your back.

 

[crosshairs]

I do not teach them to lift the tank. As a second way of recovering the regulator if the arm sweep does not work(and it should) just reach the right hand over the right shoulder and grab a hose pull it forward and you have a regulator. This works as long as the tank is not positioned too low on your back.

I teach it the same way...most students have no issues with the arm sweep , and those who do are easily coached into being able to do it without issue

 

[Hawkwood]

As others have said, the only reason to "lift" the tank is if you cannot reach the hose.

"kneeling" will most likely put you in the situation where you may have to lift it. When you are horizontal, you won't have to "lift" the tank. Maybe shove it forward, but not lift it.

It's just one other option in the tool box to solve a problem.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

This particular skill is going to vary based on several factors. The instructor, the student, the training agency, the gear setup, the stature of the person doing the skill, etc. When I teach regulator recovery (3 methods), I too like Jim mentioned above, teach to retrieve your alternate before going for your lost regulator. I make sure students can recover both arm sweep and reach method, but the individual steps (picking up on the tank), may vary depending on how long or short the person's arms are and etc. That is the great thing about a wide variety of training agencies, they all have their own methods of doing the exact same thing. The key feature is to recover your regulator. Also most standards are set so that the methods we teach are the most common (easiest by most divers), but are not the only way skills can be accomplished. As far as being horizontal or vertical while completing the skill, this too is relevant to what you are doing. Like most, I agree that being horizontal is the preferred position, however depending on if you were at the surface switching from a snorkel to a second stage and a wave hit (pushing your second stage behind you), then most likely you will be vertical. Also say you are working underwater and you are kneeling, then you would be in a vertical position. The most practical thing would be to train both vertical and horizontal. Depending on the standards of each training agency, whether they are lenient on the order that the skills are taught in, students may learn regulator recovery prior to learning neutral buoyancy. In this case it would be difficult to teach a new diver how to recover from a horizontal neutral buoyant position. Of course you can always go back and have them do it once they have learnt to hover horizontally. I personally go overboard (exaggerated) when I teach, simply because I believe in training quality students, not quanity of students. I feel that it is irresponsible to not give students as much information to keep them safe. I mean after all, it's nothing really important it is just your life. Lastly, don't get caught up in the trap that the only way to do something is the way the instructor showed you. I have students come to me and ask can I do it this way or this way, all because it is easier for them. And the answer is yes you can, you are the diver and what makes thing easier for you then do them. If it affects the other diver, say donation of a second stage in an out of air emergency, just make sure you discuss with him or her before the dive. Standards are for the instructors to follow, but they are not (law) set in stone for the diver himself. Hope this helps.

 

[abyss_scuba]

First of all lifting the tank is only neccessary if you can not reach back and grab a hose. What is intersting is that there is another thread about swim throughs. In a situation like that there might not be enough room for a full sweep so yes I certainly do teach it. Also as a side note I do not teach going for the octo first, why? For two reason, first if your reg gets knocked out of your mouth you should be comfotable enough to recover the reg while you "blow bubbles" also you have just made a one step process a two step process.In the time it takes you to locate , clear and start using the octo you could be back on the primary, just my thoughts.

 

[Easdem]

I teach both methods, but which method works best, really depends on the position of the student in the water. I don't teach my students skills while kneeling (except removal and replacement of the scuba unit u/w) and I have made some observations on both techniques.

If you are in a swimming position, the regulator is likely to be dangling directly below you if not tangled up, so the sweep behind really only works if you are kneeling or floating vertically on the surface when the regulator hangs at your side.

Lifting the tank is needed while positioned vertically, when the weight of the tank pulls it downward, but when in swimming position most people can reach just behind their head and feel for the hoses. Even though PADI doesn't officially teach to go to your octopus when searching for the primary regulator (probably a leftover from single regulator diving) I do have the students practice that method after they have been officially deemed masters of the recovery skill without it.

 

[tursiops]

PADI standards and related suggestions are clear and simple....
CW, Dive 1:
5. Recover a regulator from behind the shoulder.
The Guide to Teaching suggests: "Introduce both the arm-sweep and reach methods."
OW, Dive 2:
10. Recover and clear the regulator at depth.
The Guide to Teaching suggests: "Have student divers recover and clear their second stages using the recovery and clearing method they prefer."

Don't over think this and make it hard, it's not!

 

[tphelps]

I dont really teach the tank lift method either, IMHO it's not really that practical. When your primary air source is lost, switch to your alternate life support system before trying to find your primary. When I first started out, there were many a time when a student ran out of breath (in confined water) before finding their primary. I think also teaching the student to grab their alternate first is much easier and less intimidating or for lack of a better word, "scary." If you are a new student and you hear that you have to remove your regulator, that can be daunting! But if someone is really paranoid about loosing their regulator, then I suggest getting a regulator necklace... giving piece of mind for the low price of $6.99!