Teaching LD - Autism

[teriandcompany]

I'm cross-posting this from the instructor forum. I'd love input from anyone!
thx


I began an OW class with a father and his two sons this week. He (dad) had signed up 6 weeks ago with the shop, but did not inform anyone of his son's disabilities (which seems like pretty important information to exclude). When I followed up with them 5 days before the first pool session (I always make sure they are progressing with the bookwork, answer questions, etc), it was then he informed me they were having a little trouble and the boys (20, 24) were autistic. I asked him if he really thought they were capable of completing the course in the basic one-weekend format, and he did.

I have no problem working with them; however, it is clear after one session that determining if they are capable of certifying is something that will not be done in one weekend. Struggles with getting bookwork done (commitment to doing it and comprehension) and following directions in the pool, etc. In fact, I see what may require many, many hours. I also see the need to remove dad from the picture to assess their ability to think and act independently. I do believe the potential is there - and I work with LD kids in the classroom all the time - time, patience, repetition, serial learning, retention...all things I know it will take before even making the call with these guys.

I'm having the discussion with dad next week. I think it's wonderful that he's trying to expose them to as many things as possible, and he definitely puts them first, but I can't see doing something like this on a fast track.

I'd be greatful for any input, insight, experience anyone can pass on in a situation like this!
thanks!

 

[boulderjohn]

Not sure where you are in Colorado--I'm in Boulder.

I was an assistant in a class with the same problem a few years ago when I was an AI. Here is what happened.

The situation was unusual to begin with. One of our instructors was pregnant, so she could not do the physical instruction and did only the classroom. She called the pool instructor (who then called me, his assistant) to tell him that our class of five students included a student with a learning disability significant enough to require her to read the quiz and test to him. The class also included a brother and sister who were both autistic. The first CW class with them was a disaster. The two non-disabled students were very patient, but it was clear we were never going to get very far with the troubles that the other three were having. We ended up pulling the autistic brother and sister out and doing them separately.

My wife was then an autism specialist with the Boulder Valley School system, and she knew the brother and sister. The brother was more disabled than the sister--he required a full time aide personal aide every day in school. He was inclined to fly off the handle when things did not go his way. He stormed out of his scuba classroom at one point, and he was arrested on the first day of school (while still taking the scuba classes) for hitting his music teacher. Despite all of this, the parent believed the two could succeed in a scuba class along with other students and without any further assistance.

We convinced the parent to let us teach them separately. After a while, the main instructor did it without me, since there were only two of them, so I did not see it all. It took many, many sessions. In the end, the brother ended up with a scuba diver certification--he convinced the mother that he should never dive without professional supervision. The sister was eventually fully certified.

I exchanged emails and talked with PADI at length about this, one time having a 45 minute conversation with someone from the training department. I had been told that we could not ask about disabilities up front, but that is not true. I argued that a scuba instructor should have the same sort of information a classroom teacher gets from an IEP, and PADI agreed.

I think you have to tell the parent that it is going to take longer to complete the certification. I think you have to tell the parent (and PADI agreed) that it might cost more because of this. You need to ask the parent what kind of suggestions for instruction are on the IEP. Then you need to work with the parent to create a learning plan, a plan on which everyone agrees.

If the parent refuses, then you just need to run the class to the best of your ability. If the students do not complete the work when it is done, then they do not get certified. The next step is then up to the parent.

 

[Scott]

I have taught two students with autism in the last couple of years. One as a Rescue Diver, who until she told me would have never known and a male teenager in an OW class.
His mother and specialist attended the class orientation so everyone had a good idea of what was gong to be required from him. During the quizzes and final I would read the questions and he would tell me the answers.

Like in Johns case I had to schedule private pool sessions because he couldn't pay attention for more than an hour or so. The mother and specialist and I all agreed this would be for the better.
During pool session if there was some stress present he would withdraw and become angry but not violent. Just giving him some time, talking about the problem and giving him a solution or having him tell me another solution would bring him back around.
So in this case a weekend class was not even an option.

I made a choice to see how he would do with a group of four at OW. His mother and I thought he would do well. Wrong. On our first descent he was upset that the others were going down to slow and decided to abort and swim back to the dock. Once back down and on the platform he said they were crowding him so he aborted again.

I ended up doing separate dives for just him and on the second day he refused to do a skill so after talking with his mother I issued him a scuba diver certification.
He has been back in the pool with me a coupe times for a DSD but never back to finish OW.

 

[teriandcompany]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the input. I told dad that it would take longer - he wants to know how much longer. I told him I can't give him a number and explained that. I know I need to do them separately, from each other and dad, in order to assess abilities and focus.

John, I sent you a pm (I'm next door ). I have spent lots of phone time with PADI also, and talked to HSA and ADA too, trying to gather info.

 

[SteveAD]

I'm cross-posting this from the instructor forum. I'd love input from anyone!
thx


I began an OW class with a father and his two sons this week. He (dad) had signed up 6 weeks ago with the shop, but did not inform anyone of his son's disabilities (which seems like pretty important information to exclude). When I followed up with them 5 days before the first pool session (I always make sure they are progressing with the bookwork, answer questions, etc), it was then he informed me they were having a little trouble and the boys (20, 24) were autistic. I asked him if he really thought they were capable of completing the course in the basic one-weekend format, and he did.

I have no problem working with them; however, it is clear after one session that determining if they are capable of certifying is something that will not be done in one weekend. Struggles with getting bookwork done (commitment to doing it and comprehension) and following directions in the pool, etc. In fact, I see what may require many, many hours. I also see the need to remove dad from the picture to assess their ability to think and act independently. I do believe the potential is there - and I work with LD kids in the classroom all the time - time, patience, repetition, serial learning, retention...all things I know it will take before even making the call with these guys.

I'm having the discussion with dad next week. I think it's wonderful that he's trying to expose them to as many things as possible, and he definitely puts them first, but I can't see doing something like this on a fast track.

I'd be greatful for any input, insight, experience anyone can pass on in a situation like this!
thanks!

The medical form which must be filled out prior to starting class has the question : behavioral health, mental or psychological issues. failure to disclose conditions this serious would arguably be justification for ejection from class without refund.

I have a daughter who is on the autism spectrum, I cannot concieve her ever functioning in a "regular" scuba class. Even a one on one private would be a stretch. These students should have been signed up for a private class with special circumstances and likely a substantial price tag. An instructor who can actually get these students thru will have earned a HUGE paycheck.

 

[adurso]

A friend just went through this with an autism spectrum student. They did not indicate on the form any disability. He was told up front though. The student's physician cleared him. My friend ended up doing a lot of one on one work. This student functioned better alone.

Every student with autism spectrum disorder will vary, depending upon their place on the spectrum...

 

[teriandcompany]

These boys' physician signed off on all the medical forms and <apparently> believes it ok. I am not sure it's a "no" to me on their forms, however, I'm not a (or their) doctor or phsycholgist so that wouldn't be my call. I'm actually surprised a doctor would NOT indicate some issues. I also do have a letter stating LD, and an oral exam. LD's are not one of the medical issues addressed. (The above were all discussed with PADI and HSA also - cognitive vs. physical disabilities)


I have worked with Autistic kids in school. Some are very high functioning and I have no doubt they'd make great divers, however, each one is different, and require different approaches, sometimes lots of time and repetition. I guess that's what bothers me, is that I know this parent knows this having raised them (and done a great job). To discard that knowledge and want to try and get through something as important as this as quickly (and inexpensively?) as possible doesn't seem like a good place to take a shortcut.

Have a great 4th. I appreciate the input, and will talk with him next week to figure out what he thinks might be realistic versus what must happen to be confident of their self-sufficiency to consider any certs.

 

[SteveAD]

Physicians clearance means that I MAY teach a student who checks yes to one of the conditions on the medical form, NOT that I must. Learning to dive is NOT a right and any student who fails to disclose information that absolutely WILL have at least some impact on the class has demonstrated that they are a student that I cannot trust.

The "kids" in question are 20 and 24, had they signed themselves up I might have cut them some slack on disclosure because their autism might have might have impacted their decision not to disclose. The fact that dad (who has probably been dealing with their SP ED requirements for the last 20 plus years) said nothing is a huge red flag in my book.

 

[teriandcompany]

Steve,
Absolutely agree. They had no "yes" answers on their medical, dr note anyway, etc. My biggest issue, is that dad did not reveal the LD/ASD until the 11th hour and I don't trust his motives now. Had he done so, my recommendation first might have been to meet them, discuss their needs, see if it was a fit, plan DSD to check, certainly NOT do the self-study route, etc. Whatever his excuse (they have to drive 2 hours to get to town, brain farts, bad coffee, blah, blah), it just requires a reset of his expectations/plans.

But he did not, they arrived with all their information and I essentially turned their session (no other students) into a DSD anyway. I am more than happy to see what they can do, and let them experience SCUBA. We spent 1 hour in the water at 4 feet and they could clear their mask. And they had fun. It will take a lot more work if the expectation is any kind of certification (and just because you pay doesn't mean you will be certified), but until I can further discuss with him after the holiday, it's on hold.

I would like to get them alone to see how they function without dad helping, and to see if this is really something THEY WANT to do (which is what I do with ALL kids and couples anyway). That's all part of the planned discussion. Once we've done that, we'll figure out if a DSD was enough (and we will give them some money back), or if dad's willing to accept there needs to be a different route (which will take more time and money).

 

[pasley]

I agree that this should have been disclosed on the medical form. That said it would be ADA discrimination to out of hand refuse to teach the student just because it was on the form, but approprite to require some additional discussion and perhaps a talk with the students physician or other specialist. It would also be appropriate IMHO to not refuse to teach, but to tell the parrents that you are not qualified (trained) to teach and to referr them to a Handiacapped SCUBA Association Instructor as there is additional training available for teaching, DM or just diving with disabled divers.

Autisim is but one of the disabilities that Handicapped SCUBA Association (HSA) ceretifies. Patience and an undersanding of Autism is required and the instructor should be HSA or equivilent certified. PADI and NAUI were both there contributing to the creation of the HSA standards.

Autistic divers do well, in that many experience a change in their life that stays with them after the dive is over. Some become more communicative. That said, even HSA says that not all will certify. Jim Eliott of Dive Heart (an HSA course director) has dove some summer camps teaching Autistic student.

For many with handicappes the standard 2 weekend is not appropriate for many reasons including the need to develope mussel memory on the skills not just head knowledge and for some the need to work through challenges and perhaps learn additional skills the able bodies student does not need to learn (try tying your legs togeher and then rolling from your front to back and visa versa in a pool without using your legs or adominal mussles. This is one additional skill I must teach a paraplegic diver).