Tech/Cave Gear

[kelemvor]

Side mount versus back mount is something that still gets people's panties in a wad. The trend seems to be in favor of back mount, but the back mount die hards still insist side mount is a tool that should only be used in specialized circumstances where side mount doesn't work.

Did you mean to say the trend seems to be in favor of side mount?

 

[kensuf]

Sidemount, backmount, no mount...it's just a tool you have to get used to. Once you understand trim and buoyancy you can dive anything, even a jacket

Agreed. But I wouldn't recommend no mount for all diving purposes. It's a tool for specific diving purposes.

 

[AJ]

I was just kidding about no mount

My point is: you can dive anything anywhere once you can dive. Do what you please. I dive doubles backmount and I love diving it very much (GUE style). However, there are situations (I don't do cave yet) where sidemount comes in handy. Not having all that weight on your back can be usefull or even more safe in some situations. However, there are dives I would not do SM (North Sea diving). Each dive I decide what's the best tool for this specific dive. That's the power of choice.

 

[kensuf]

I was just kidding about no mount

My point is: you can dive anything anywhere once you can dive. Do what you please. I dive doubles backmount and I love diving it very much (GUE style). However, there are situations (I don't do cave yet) where sidemount comes in handy. Not having all that weight on your back can be usefull or even more safe in some situations. However, there are dives I would not do SM (North Sea diving). Each dive I decide what's the best tool for this specific dive. That's the power of choice.

I agree with you -- pick the right tool for the job. It's the people that try and claim SideMount is the best tool for tech diving and that beginning tech/cave divers should start in SideMount that I disagree with. However, upon further reflection, I'm beginning to think that no-mount is probably the best tool for all diving circumstances and that all technical training should begin with no-mount...

 

[ofg-1]

I switched to sidemount after 30 years of diving backmount simply because my knees are shot. Its easier on my knees carrying tanks one at a time. I also went to smaller steels and extra stages. While side mount has allowed me to get in little places that I could not get in backmount, it is, in my opinion, not as clean or simple as diving back mount. Just like a dry suit is not as clean or simple as a wet suit. Ken is correct, they are both tools used for a certain purpose. In my case, I am trying to avoid having a masked man cutting out my knee joints with a dull hacksaw.

 

[KevinNM]

I agree with you -- pick the right tool for the job. It's the people that try and claim SideMount is the best tool for tech diving and that beginning tech/cave divers should start in SideMount that I disagree with. However, upon further reflection, I'm beginning to think that no-mount is probably the best tool for all diving circumstances and that all technical training should begin with no-mount...

So your going to teach it no mount with a 160 h-valve tank carried in your arms?

 

[kensuf]

So your going to teach it no mount with a 160 h-valve tank carried in your arms?

Yeah!

 

[tbone1004]

So your going to teach it no mount with a 160 h-valve tank carried in your arms?

baretank breathing, no need for those stinking regulators

 

[DevonDiver]

Regardless of whether you choose to do your cave training in back mount doubles or side mount doubles, you need to be competent in the configuration before you show up for a class.

That's the crux of it.

The issues raised in this thread don't stem from a problem with sidemount EQUIPMENT, but rather from poor sidemount training.

Otherwise, you'll be spending time fixing the configuration rather than actually learning cave diving skills.

Ingrained equipment familiarity should be a prerequisite on any overhead environment course.

I teach technical wreck, not cave, (although the syllabus is largely identical)... and those courses have the benefit that the student is supposed to already be a competent and experienced technical diver before applying those skills and equipment in the overhead.

In cave, there can be a lot less 'equipment time' before you enter the overhead environment.

Side mount versus back mount is something that still gets people's panties in a wad

In general, I find opposition to sidemount comes from only four sources:

1) Divers who've been badly trained on sidemount, and consequently have not enjoyed the performance and comfort benefits that sidemount should provide.

2) Divers who've encountered badly trained sidemount divers and attribute the shenanigans they've witnessed as being a result of an equipment performance deficit, not a training deficit.

3) instructors who aren't effective sidemount divers themselves, and seek to conceal the competency shortfall by downplaying the performance of sidemount equipment.

4) Experienced and highly competent (esp tech/cave) backmount divers who 'try' sidemount and obviously notice a performance degradation due to the unfamiliar kit and protocols. Unwilling to be a 'learner' again, they instead deny the need to build a comparable experience foundation in that unfamiliar kit. They dismiss sidemount as "more complex", "not as useful" or "not as natural" etc etc etc... Basically, anything other than simply accepting that you can't compare your performance, fluidity and comfort in kit you've used thousands of times, versus kit you've barely used at all.

The trend seems to be in favor of back mount,...

The AVAILABILITY (of quality tuition) is much more in favor of backmount...

... back mount die hards still insist side mount is a tool that should only be used in specialized circumstances where side mount doesn't work.

An attitude that emphasises that they don't appreciate the need (when it doesn't suit them) to spend time in a given configuration to develop a deeply ingrained, intuitive and unconscious level equipment operation and protocols familiarity...

Which leads to situation #4, that I mentioned above...

In short, egos can't easily handle not still being the 'expert' in that equipment, so denial and avoidance are preferable courses of action.

 

[kensuf]

Wow. Generalize much?

Two of the biggest "anti-sidemount" guys I know have quite an extensive resume of diving sidemount. One of them literally did miles of cave exploration in sidemount and helped design at least three iterations of sidemount harnesses for a major technical gear manufacturer. To lump him in categories 1-4 is ridiculous.