Tell Dive Store Owners How You Feel

[mictrik]

Selling crap because it has the best markup is stupid (like Air2's or spare airs)

Air2's do not have a higher markup than other products. I do not know about spare air.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm very fortunate... I like going in to my primary dive shop (Catalina SCUBA Luv) and also enjoy interacting with the other shops on the island (Catalina Diver's Supply, Ron Moore's Dive Catalina). The employees at the shops are pretty knowledgeable with several being far more qualified divers than I am (even after 50 years of practice on my part!). My only wish is that they employed more drop dead gorgeous, brilliant and experience single women! Oh, well... you can't have everything!

My biggest complaint about the shops on Catalina is that it was difficult to get nitrox ... despite the fact that the profiles at the local dive park are pretty much ideal for using it. And they didn't always follow through on having your tanks ready when they said they would ... which is probably why the folks with the portable fill station out at the park are doing such a brisk business.

Oh, and telling me that if I filled a nitrox tank with air would require them to re-VIP it before putting nitrox in it wasn't too cool either. It was their fill station, after all ... if the air's dirty, then rather than charging people for another VIP they should consider changing their filters more often ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Superlyte27]

Air2's do not have a higher markup than other products. I do not know about spare air.

I promise you that an AIR2 has a higher markup than say a Dive Rite regulator. I have the dealer price list for both. And it was more about the "crap" than that markup.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I promise you that an AIR2 has a higher markup than say a Dive Rite regulator. I have the dealer price list for both. And it was more about the "crap" than that markup.

Compare apples to apples ... what the markup of an Air2 compared to another ScubaPro second, such as an R295 or a C200?

Of course you consider the Air 2 crap ... it's not designed for the type of diving you do. It's a valid choice for an open water recreational diver ... just as are other equipment choices you'd no doubt consider "crap".

My beef with the Air 2 isn't the gear so much as it is that most people who purchase one never bother practicing a shared-air ascent while using the thing. When you need it ain't the time to be figuring it out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Dbmata]

1. How you feel about dive shops being affiliated with a specific agency? Would you prefer generic stores? Do you feel more comfortable or more alienated by agency branding?

I don't care, really. Just be able to provide the knowledge I need at a price I will pay.

2. How do you feel about education? Are the time frames for classes too long, too short or just right? Do you like having lots of specialties? Or, would you prefer less specialty education? Did seeing all the educational opportunities excite you or almost turn you off to diving?

Too short, the OW cert was almost like a really light overview of what one might need to know... and really didn't give a lot of in depth knowledge that would be helpful, like a more in depth module or series on gases and the body at depth and once you're out. (SSI, specifically)

6. What kind of employee do you most want in the store? What kind of employee makes you want to go elsewhere?

7. Do you like going into the dive shop when the owner is there or do you try to only go when other employees are working?

Making this one a twofer, because the beef I have is with the owner. Firstly, don't tell me a piece of my gear is utter ****, I already know it's old, and it's what I got for now. I'll invest more once I've decided what I want and what is good to go. Secondly, don't complain audibly in the presence of a customer about how a certain class/type/demographic of customer just costs you money to have. That's a sure sign of two things, your books are a mess, and you like the fine sense to make me think that you want me in your shop spending my hard earned money that you don't seem to respect.

That about does it for me.

 

[mictrik]

I promise you that an AIR2 has a higher markup than say a Dive Rite regulator. I have the dealer price list for both. And it was more about the "crap" than that markup.

You need not promise me anything; I have Scubapro, Mares, Sherwood, Dive Rite, trident, Oceanic and others in front of me too. The Scubapro Air2 is marked up at the same rate as other Scubapro gear which is similar to other main stream complete line vendors.
I really laugh when people attack the virtues of the Air2. First it was attacked because Scubapro was the only manufacturer as the patent made it difficult to imitate. Then we had number of clearly inferior designs hit the market, then the patent expires and we see a number of "copies" hit the market. I have never heard a single argument against the Air2 that was reasonable.
Now, back in 1992 while diving a well known wreck in the North East i had the unfortunate opportunity to use my Air2. My Dive buddy suffered a panic possibly brought on by a form of Asthma that caused her to believe she was not getting air. By the time i got to her she was panicked enough that she grabbed my regulator right from my mouth and i am glad she did as I cared for her and would always place her welfare above my own. In trying to get her to breathe and in a bit of a struggle she went unconscious. There was no time for fright, deco-stops, safety stops etc... She had to get to the surface immediately! Fortunately we were only at 70' and for a short period of time. I ascended with her as fast as i could while watching air escape from her mouth. Once at the surface the swells were in the 10' range and i lost her for a few seconds but someone on the boat spotted her, dove in and brought her on board. She was brought to the hospital and was found to of suffered no injury. Not fun!!
While on my ascent i used my Air2. It worked well and was second nature to locate since i used it on every dive. Since then I always have an Air2 even if I have an additional octopus. The Air2 takes no more room than a standard power inflater, it is eminently reliable and breathes rather well; for this reason I think all power inflater's should also be regulators. When your octopus is your power inflater it is always in the same spot, it is used regularly & cleaned out with use. I think you are more likely to spot an issue with something you always use. The Air2 makes it very easy to manually inflate your bladder by inhaling & exhaling with the same mouth piece. I understand that many people today are overweighted and as such keep more air in their BC's than i do, dumping on ascent is essential for them. With an Air2 this would involve removing the Air2 from your mouth to dump air or you could use another dump valve that most BC's have. I use the dump valve over my right shoulder but on that day back in 1992 i don't believe i dumped anything. The singular aspect of the Air2 that made it earn my respect is the fact that it was second nature to use. I never thought about it, i don't remember looking for it or thinking to use it, I just used it and it worked! The continual act of going to your inflater dive after dive creates a sort of "muscle memory" that is helpful in the event you need to use the Air2 in a moment of stress. The design has been around for over 30 years now and is as reliable as any other piece of dive gear. I will never fully understand the naysayers.

 

[arthurmnev]

I will never fully understand the naysayers.

I'm with you on usability of air 2. My only beef with it is the shortness of the hose, you pretty much have to face left if you are breathing out of it. On the other hand, if you are using it, that means the dive is done with and you are going up.

full disclosure: I do have air 2 as a part of my setup

 

[mictrik]

I'm with you on usability of air 2. My only beef with it is the shortness of the hose, you pretty much have to face left if you are breathing out of it. On the other hand, if you are using it, that means the dive is done with and you are going up.
full disclosure: I do have air 2 as a part of my setup

I believe that you can get longer lengths of hose. I felt that the hose i had back then was also a bit short and i recall the mouthpiece leaning out of my a bit on accent. I angled the elbow where it attaches to the BC to be more ergonomic and that sufficed. I like the older hose better for it's flexibility & suppleness the newer hoses are OK but I really prefer the older ones.
Some also assume the Air2 is complex and in turn more prone to failure. This is not the case the unit is simple, robust and easy to service. Inflater & regulator mechanisms are separate sharing only the mouthpiece.

 

[weezieharris]

I totall agree with chrpai above. The dive shop closest to me is only about 20 minutes away and is where I actually received my OW certification. However, I feel like they are disappointed when I go in to make a small purchase...say air fills, a new pair of boots, retractor etc. In addition, they have absolutely nothing positive to say about any brand of gear which they do not carry or even certain platforms which they do carry. For example, I am currently looking to switch from a jacket to a back inflate BC. Being a new diver, I have no experience with a back inflate. I visited the shop last week so I could try a back inflate with the intention of ordering (from them) a model they do not stock even though they are dealers for the brand. The owner through a medium large bc in the pool (I wear an XS), said "you are going to hate this" and proceeded to tell me how back inflates are useless and only worn by those who want to look like tech divers. While she may not be a fan of the technology, I expect an educated open minded opinion. She can share her bias but should also be able to discuss some positives to the technology. This is a standard platform in diving and almost everyone I know who wears back inflate BCs say they will never switch back to a jacket style. With all that in mind, I can't help but feel she has a profit motivated reason for not encouraging me to make that purchase. I will still be buying back inflate model but from a different dealer. In addition, its most likely, I will be getting air fills somewhere else and will make an hour and a half drive to have my equipment serviced. It is worth it to be treated in a friendly manner when you enter the shop. I do not want to be made to feel as if I am a "traitor" when I opt to make a dive trip that is not coordinated through the shop or research other equipment options. I understand a shop needs to be profitable...that is their purpose for existing but they should also be promoting a love of the sport. I think some LDS have forgotten this principle.

In answer to the other questions listed...
1. It does not bother me to have a shop affiliated with a particular agency. Researching the different certifications should be part of the decision to learn to dive.
2. I do think my OW certification could have been a little more in depth though I had great teachers. I understand that the certifying agencies want you to know about the additional training opportunities but I feel this is very profit motivated and that class time spent discussing these facts could have been better spent on skills training.
3. As mentioned above, I am unhappy and uncomfortable in my LDS. However, there is a smaller shop about an hour away. They do not service my brands of gear but are great to answer questions, point out dive sites, etc. I love to stop in this shop. Even grab lunch and swing by in between dives etc. My preference for the second shop is simply based on how I am treated and willingness to answer questions etc.
4. Inventory overall is a little limited. I wish they carried a larger option of BCD's and lights. I feel my shop very much tries to push you into certain set-ups.
5. My LDS is a full service sporting goods store. That is fine with me...as long as they have what I need and employees who are knowledgeable about the Scuba side.
6. I want someone friendly and knowledgeable. I prefer someone who can answer questions about full ranges of gear (not necessarily just the brands they carry) even though they are sure to me more familiar/in depth with their own brands.
7. Depends on which shop. My LDS, I try to avoid the owner at all costs. The second shop by my dive sites...I love the owner and look forward to chatting with him. I will be pursuing further certifications here even though the drive is farther just because I feel he is more open minded and am more comfortable dealing with him.
8. Service prices are a little high but not completely out of the ballpark. I think a week to 10 day turn around would be great though I understand busy seasons could extend this. I don't want to forget that this is life suporting equipment...dont want mistakes made by a rushed service tech.

 

[iguana751]

1. I do not really care about the agency but are the divers teaching the classes instructors or not? Can I see it in writing? Do not run down other agencies and teach that your agency is the only good one.
2. I like taking specialty courses so offer a lot of them. But advertise the courses 3 or 4 weeks ahead of time not 2 or 3 days! When I take a course, provide the dives within 1 or 2 weeks not 8 or 10 months later! Have me do the dives with an instructor!
3. I am usually comfortable in the shop except when the owner is grumpy. The employee is never grumpy.

4. I am happy with the service on buying new gear even with the small inventory.

8. I am happy with the service on equipment.



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