"Term limits" on certifications

[gjmmotors]

Haha, I like this one. 88% were fatbodies. Just wait until there famalies or dirtbag lawyers make the connection. "Mc Donalds and Burger King contributed to my diving death."
I think some people just thumb their nose at Darwin when they move to put their fins on.

Another interesting statistic is that a full 88% of the 2002 fatalities were either overweight, obese, or morbidly obese. Maybe instead of checking a log, we need a bathroom scale.QUOTE]

 

[ParamedicDiver1]

As a professional I take countless hours of CE to maintain my skills...it is mandatory. The last thing I want is for my hobby to require me to maintiain CE ours too. There is a reason this is a recreational activity.

If we make re-cert a requirement, people will still find ways around it and people will still die. That is just a fact of life.

In an earlier post, a writer asked if we should relax seat belt laws. I'll be honest, I do have a problem with the government regulating this. If a driver does not want to wear a seat belt and put himself in greater risk of injury or death after being involved in an accident, then so be it...natural selection.

 

[mrobinson]

In an earlier post, a writer asked if we should relax seat belt laws. I'll be honest, I do have a problem with the government regulating this. If a driver does not want to wear a seat belt and put himself in greater risk of injury or death after being involved in an accident, then so be it...natural selection.

If that same driver who won't wear a seatbelt procreates, then that child is put at risk too. Unfortunately that's why these laws are passed in the first place. That actually helps prove my point when directed at diving.

 

[Wildcard]

As a professional I take countless hours of CE to maintain my skills...it is mandatory. The last thing I want is for my hobby to require me to maintiain CE ours too. There is a reason this is a recreational activity.

If we make re-cert a requirement, people will still find ways around it and people will still die. That is just a fact of life.

In an earlier post, a writer asked if we should relax seat belt laws. I'll be honest, I do have a problem with the government regulating this. If a driver does not want to wear a seat belt and put himself in greater risk of injury or death after being involved in an accident, then so be it...natural selection.

After twenty years of draging bodies out of cars, I still have to agree that making "laws" like seatbelt laws are pointless, Children excepted. Some people are just too stupid to live but still don't have the right to endanger there children. Same deal with helmets on motorcycles, your an idiot if you don't but we don't need laws. And so on with diving recerts. Diver operators need to protect them selves from the land sharks by making sure divers are and know what they are doing but people that want to go out on there own and kill themselves have every right to, just don't expect me to do the body recovery.

 

[drbill]

Bureaucracy! I'm totally against making recertification mandatory! Wise, yes, mandatory no! Why should I have to pay for someone else's ignorance?

Many of the folks responding here are missing the point: You would NOT have to pay a thing if you did the required number of dives during the certification period. Any regular diver (vs the two dives per year type, or the no dives for three years) would not need recertification. The cost of a recert or refresher would only be incurred by divers whose dive frequency is too low.

I know I forget things even with a "regular" routine established for kitting up. Someone may start talking to me and I blank on where I left off, skipping a step.

I've also seen certified instructors who didn't know how to put their own mask strap on, or how to descend without a rope, or dive with reasonable bouyancy control.

As for the being able to dive anywhere, certified or not... here in the State of Caleeforneeia, a valid c-card is required to get an air fill. It can be circumvented, but it does prevent most who are uncertified from diving.

Dr. Bill

 

[Scuba]

I hope this is not one of those freak coincidences. This Sat. I went by a one of the local scuba/sporting goods chain stores to look around. I just happened to notice a lady sitting down on a bench trying on some fins, and overheard someone saying something in regards to going to Catalina this weekend to try some gear out. I would describe this lady as middle aged with shoulder length salt and pepper hair - and overweight. The reason this stuck in my mind is because I remember telling my wife "That lady shouldn't be diving, she doesn't look fit to dive"

I don't know if this is the same person or not. But I will stand by my opinion on this matter from what I saw, even if it's not the same person and she comes here and gives me a piece of her mind.

We all talk about how effortless and relaxing scuba can be. But the fact of the matter is that we carry a significant amount of weight that will put a strain on sedentary persons whose only or primary and sparse exercise is diving. A short walk or even standing up can place a significant strain. I also recall reading somewhere that a normal swimming pace with scuba gear underwater is equivalent to running at a brisk pace on land for a much longer distance. Don't recall specifics. New, and those who do not dive often, are not very likely to have good energy conservation techniques while swimming with scuba gear.

Regarding re-certification or licensing, I am of the opinion that whatever system would be implemented is likely to be deficient in effectively achieving its intended objective, while probably catering to certain business interests. At the same time, I understand the claim that some is better than none.

An increasing bad streak of accidents such as the ones being discussed here is likely to start the ball rolling in the direction of regulation, at least in some parts. Let's face it, regulation is not a just enterprise for all. At one time there where no driver's licenses. And while there are many who would be unncessarily affected, and unjustly encumbered by regulation, there are many who deservedly share in the blame and need for it.

Dr Bill, I don't how crowded the dive park was today at the time of this accident, but if it was crowded as would likely be the case on a holiday weekend during the day, it is indeed a sad commentary on our society that only one person came to the assistance of someone in dire need. This comment naturally excludes those who would not be capable of providing assisstance or were unaware of the circumstances.

My condolences to the family.

 

[radinator]

GUE already does this, on several levels.

This is what I've gathered from talking to people. I do not claim to be an expert on any of the details, and in fact I may just be wrong on everything.

I believe for the diver certs the cards last 3 years. To get renewed, you have to show that you've done 25 dives at your highest level of certification to renew that cert. In other words if you are a Tech 1 diver, you have to have done 25 Tech1 dives in the last 3 years. You show it by sending in copies of your logbook.

Can you cheat? Sure, but as the saying goes, you are only cheating yourself.

I believe for instructors, you have to have 25 dives at a level exceeding that at which you teach. So a Tech 1 instructor has to have done 25 Tech 2 dives to be renewed.

Again, this is my understanding. I am not (yet) GUE certified for anything. Consult an expert for what they really do.

 

[Chad_Ordelheide]

In an earlier post, a writer asked if we should relax seat belt laws. I'll be honest, I do have a problem with the government regulating this. If a driver does not want to wear a seat belt and put himself in greater risk of injury or death after being involved in an accident, then so be it...natural selection.

Natural Selection!
If someone's decision doesn't effect me or others I really don't care what they do. Why do I have the right to tell them how to run/waste their lives. Don't wear your seatbelt if you don't think it's cool! Maybe it's cooler to be wrapped around a telephone pole?

Back to the questions of regulating our hobby diving, getting air and C-cards...(Don't forget diving is a hobby for most!)

I rock climb, among other things! Should they require a card that shows I've climbed at least 10 times the last year. That way stores (REI, MEC, etc) could check these cards before they sell me any ropes! Same for Kayaks, tents, Ice gear, bikes, skis...Shesh I bet more poeple die from winter sports than from diving! (Does anyone have numbers on that?) Where would the regulation end? Stop the insanity

 

[dbg40]

Again, I do not agree with re-certification of a diver for any reason, save for instructor level. The hassle alone would put me right back to no c-card wether I had "the appropriate" # of dives, or not! And who decides this magic #? You want to see BUNCH of pissed off divers, just put somthing like this to reality, and stand back to watch the show! Most divers that I know, are skilled in their craft, some are actively learning, and anyone else below that level of commitment, I dont want to know. This level of diver will continue to hone their skills on their own, and damn sure wont want to have to report to the office to prove that they are safe from themselves. And once again, PLEASE look at the average class of divers being put to open water these days. I wonder how many would die in the pool without exterior forms of bouyancy! There's your weak point.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Why should a certification acquired when one is in their 20's be valid when they reach their 50's (a lofty level that I myself have achieved!). A person's health and conditioning can change radically over this period, yet they are still certified to dive.

Because there is no great public hazard in their doing so. You have no more right to restrict a person's recreational diving activities than you do to require certification and recertification of a "certificate for jogging" - an activity, by the way, that kills far more participants in bad shape than diving ever hopes to.
In this country, your desire to save people from themselves is trumped by their right to do as they please. Pray it stays that way.
Rick