"Term limits" on certifications

[Don Burke]

A noble goal.

If we could figure out a way to keep the dive agencies and government out of it, it might be practical.

As it stands, if I want to know how someone dives, I get them in the water. That is the only measurement that means anything.

 

[scubafool]

I was going to reply, but someone stole my thunder.

From Mike Ferrara's post
"Fortunately a dive certification isn't a license. With the acception of some parks, private owned boats where the owner can require what they want and very few countries that regulate diving, any one can dive anyplace they want to and don't need to have any certification.

Once I pay for a class, finish it and get my certificate of completion my business with the agency is finished. If I want them for anything else I'll call. If I want their advice I'll call.

I divers are being certified and are still unable to decide whether or not a dive is appropriate for them then the agencies aren't doing their job from day one and the last thing any one needs is more envolvement from them."

 

[jakubson]

DAN does an annual injury and fatality report. The typical yearly fatality count for recreational divers of Canadian and US residence is 90.

Dan report is available to members free of charge.

BSAC also does an annual incident report..
Both the DAN and BSAC reports show a general downward trend in fatalities over the last decade.., except for last year in the UK where deaths spiked up to 25 rather than the typical 15-20.

As for your other questions about experience level / recent diving experience:

As in previous DAN reports, 40 percent of injured men and 50 percent of injured women had made fewer than 20 dives in the previous 12 months. About 25%/30% had less than 10 dives in previous 12 months.

Equivalent info for fatalities was a much smaller sample, but had the same sort of higher risk with <10 dives in the previous 12 months.

As for the cause of death, obviously it can be hard to determine and about 1/2 the deaths were "drowning". Air embolism and cardiovascular problems were tied as the next most common reasons, at 16 each out of 89 deaths in 2003.

Charlie

Another interesting statistic is that a full 88% of the 2002 fatalities were either overweight, obese, or morbidly obese. Maybe instead of checking a log, we need a bathroom scale.

 

[Valwood1]

I see where you're going with this. Part of that debate, IMHO, is whether or not the dive industry is accidentally leading people to believe they have less personal responsibilty then they should.

That's a good point, particularly when one hears about "resort courses" that seem to be a bit on the quick side. On the other hand, I confess to having a first "dive" in Guadeloupe without any -- and I mean, zero -- training, other than the DM removing my mask underwater and apparently being satisfied when I didn't shoot to the surface; of course, the depth was 25 feet, and the DM held on to me the entire time. Anyway, Guadeloupe is French and maybe they're different -- heck, they ARE different!

If part of the divers believe it's a divemaster responsiblity to look after them, shouldn't we protect ourselves, the dive industry, and these types of divers by getting them recertified?

Aside from the out-of-practice or inept divers who we're trying to save from themselves (and that's never an easy or appreciated chore), the persons/entities really being protected by recert are the DMs and dive ops. As Mike said, they have every right and capability to protect themselves through looks at the C card, dive log, etc., or refusing to allow advanced dives without seeing you dive first. A lot of dive operators do something along those lines; though I've never had anyone look at my log, I've had several ops ask when my last dive was, or my maximum depth, before a dive.

I'd rather see the policing by the ops rather than PADI, NAUI, SSI or whichever.

 

[dbg40]

Great! I need MORE regulations to make me safe from myself. How can anyone that has been diving for any length of time agree with this concept? Its an embarassment to the sport to see some of the divers that are being pumped out daily, by the current certifying agencys. Some can't walk up a flight of stairs, but are "given" a card to dive after given not even the most basic of skills to do so, not to mention physical abilities.
And I, for one, don't want to hear about these same agencys retesting me. Just maybe the whole process of "selling" c-cards to anyone with a little cash, and a fiew free nights to hit the pool needs to be addressed. I was trained years ago, remain in good physical condition, practice my skills, and want to be left alone. I fully agree, if I need them, I'll find them.

 

[PugetDiver]

Another interesting statistic is that a full 88% of the 2002 fatalities were either overweight, obese, or morbidly obese. Maybe instead of checking a log, we need a bathroom scale.

It would also be nice to know the ages of the divers. Can you site your sources?

 

[Rick Inman]

Another interesting statistic is that a full 88% of the 2002 fatalities were either overweight, obese, or morbidly obese. Maybe instead of checking a log, we need a bathroom scale.

I wonder if this chart is really much different than one you might create for the average American. Could be just a reflection of societies health overall. In other words, because so many of us are overweight, a traffic fatality chart might look the same.

Br. Bill, I hope if they ever make this re-certification agency you hope for, it is in conjunction with the California Department of Licensing, and you have a nice long wait in line for suggesting the idea.

 

[jakubson]

It would also be nice to know the ages of the divers. Can you site your sources?

It is from the 2004 report titled

The DAN Annual Review of Recreational Scuba Diving Injuries and Fatalities.

Based on 2002 Data.
​

As you requested, here is the age data. It sure prompted me to lose 95 pounds and religiously work out.

 

[Scuba1231]

Here is my 2 psi since I am one of those divers who happen to be grossly out of practice. I was certified 20 years ago at age 14 and my last real dive was in 1989. I took a class in college to at least play with the gear in the pool but didn't do the open water dives. If you do the math, it has been more than 10 years since I have been in the water with a tank on. I am comfortable in the water, have a decent understanding of diving physiology, and am a better swimmer than most people. Do I need a refresher? Probably, but I don't plan on it. Instead, I am going to do some open pool workouts that a local shop does and will practice on my own. After that I will get with a more experienced partner and do some lake diving. In addition, there are classes I want to take such as stress and rescue and eventually nitrox, etc. When I get back in the ocean, I will be starting out with someone who knows the area. Personally, I think there are too many divers that have no business diving and should not have even been certified in the first place. I see people that are morbidly obese that can't even carry the tanks!

 

[PugetDiver]

It is from the 2004 report titled

The DAN Annual Review of Recreational Scuba Diving Injuries and Fatalities.

Based on 2002 Data.
​

As you requested, here is the age data. It sure prompted me to lose 95 pounds and religiously work out.

Very interesting data. Any reflections?