The BP/Wing/Harness setup I may get

[WillAbbott]

I have to wonder about you guys who say a #45 wing is excessive. Wouldn't that depend on the diver, rig, and exposure gear? I ask because I have two wings ... a DiveRite RecWing (#50) and a DiveRite Venture (#30). I use the former in all my regular diving ... with a variety of steel cylinders (single tank config) and the Venture wing is for my pool rig. I wouldn't even want to consider taking a #30 out in the OW ... I doubt I'd be able to surface swim comfortably with it. I'm a fairly hefty guy (245 lbs) and dive a 22 lb weight belt with a 6 lb backplate.

I do like the Oxycheq wing ... it's most likely going to be my next purchase.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You should EASILY be able to dive a 30# in open water, unless you are like signifigantly overweighted... I use an H 36# Pioneer with AL's (have used it with steels many a times though), drysuit, I weight 170-5, I wear 30lbs of lead.

I can NOT inflate the wing fully on the surface, I use the wing for inflation, not the suit, I keep the suit pretty compressed. If I were to inflate the wing all the way on the surface (which I have done before) I can't hardly surface swim... I float too high in the water, and end up creating too much drag, and can't swim for a dang. I've dove it with a steel tank, and the same weighting as an AL, so easily several pounds heavy, and never needed to inflate the wing very far (as near as I can tell), I reaced back many a times on that dive, as I felt like I was having to swim myself upwards to keep from sinking, as such it felt as if I had the wing fully inflated, however upon reaching back and grabing the wing, it was no where near full... in retrospect I think it was the fact I had a steel, and the weighting of an AL, it threw my trim way off.

As for the taco effect, I have no experience with it... however I would suggest a smaller wing than a 45... If I had the money, etc, I'd probably see about switching to a smaller wing... I think I'd also much rather have an STA style wing because I currently have to use a 4lbs weight on my cam strap to aide in trim.

Just my 2 cents, many a more people with much more vast knowledge than I have replied, I return the thread and your attention back to them

 

[goatboy_k]

i agree with some of the above posts. I dive a 1/4 inch stainless Fred T plate with a old style (no seperate bladder) oxycheq single tank 45 pound wing. I use everything from aluminum 63's to LP steel 104's and it's great. Trim and balance is great with everything. As mentioned above about buying scuba gear twice, I know for a fact that my fredT plate and seamless d-rings will be the last ones i EVER buy. You can probally hammer nails, use it as a shovel, defend yourself against pirates, as well as dive for the rest of your live and it will still look like the day you got it in the mail.

good luck
kurt

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You should EASILY be able to dive a 30# in open water, unless you are like signifigantly overweighted... I use an H 36# Pioneer with AL's (have used it with steels many a times though), drysuit, I weight 170-5, I wear 30lbs of lead.

But ya see Will ... there's the problem with generalizations ...

I weigh 70 lbs more than you, wear 8 lbs. less lead than you do, and I still need a bigger wing.

Somewhere you've got to figure physiology into the equation ... and without knowing the diver involved, it's really difficult to tell someone that a particular amount of lift is going to be right for them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[glbirch]

But ya see Will ... there's the problem with generalizations ...

I weigh 70 lbs more than you, wear 8 lbs. less lead than you do, and I still need a bigger wing.

Somewhere you've got to figure physiology into the equation ... and without knowing the diver involved, it's really difficult to tell someone that a particular amount of lift is going to be right for them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I soundly second that. Too many people seem to advise on BC's as though everyone's personal buoyancy was the same.You have to look at the type of diving you will be doing, the suit and gear you are wearing, and your personal buoyancy. I myself seem to be fairly dense (Ya, ya, my wife said if first ) so my wing size preference might be different than yours in similar conditions.

 

[WillAbbott]

But ya see Will ... there's the problem with generalizations ...

I weigh 70 lbs more than you, wear 8 lbs. less lead than you do, and I still need a bigger wing.

Somewhere you've got to figure physiology into the equation ... and without knowing the diver involved, it's really difficult to tell someone that a particular amount of lift is going to be right for them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bah, I had a good reply typed, and lost it...

Anyways, I was saying that you are right, it was 9pm last night, and I was tired, and I shouldn't have been typing messages, I slept like a log too, not re-reading, I realize I was being a retard... My appologies for trying to type and fall asleep at the same time.

Basics of bouyancy would say that if you displace more water than your weight you will float (must be me with my drysuit, without it, I can't hardly float in a pool), whereas if you displace less water than you weigh, you sinky...


<speculation please comment on the accuracy of this theory>

However further thought, shouldn't you at the surface be only slightly negative (without BC) so that you can sink, but not need tons of weight. I mean for me, it's difficult to get underwater, I take a few moments of having to squeeze the air of out my suit, before I sink... that said at the end of the dive, I have no trouble keeping my bouyancy in 5,10, or 15feet of water... shouldn't we all be just as negative in the water (if properly weighted)?

I mean for example if I am weighted proper, lets say I'm 2lbs heavy at the start of a dive, then all I would need is 2lbs lift to not sink, and anything extra would float me. So in theory shouldn't we all be just as negative at the start and end of a dive in order to be properly weighted?

<end speculation>

Again, sorry I wasn't thinking... It's always funny though seeing people any size and weight difference from me, getting away with less weight, esspecially when everyone floats in the pool with ease, and I struggle

 

[LUBOLD8431]

I dont think you are calculating the weight of the gas that is present at the beginning of the dives in your cylinder(s). This can be 7#+ of gas depending on which cylinder you are using. That will make you heavy at the beginning of a dive.

As far as weighting goes, you should still be able to hold at ten feet with 500 # left in your cylinder(s).

 

[WillAbbott]

I dont think you are calculating the weight of the gas that is present at the beginning of the dives in your cylinder(s). This can be 7#+ of gas depending on which cylinder you are using. That will make you heavy at the beginning of a dive.

As far as weighting goes, you should still be able to hold at ten feet with 500 # left in your cylinder(s).

No, I wasn't... I wasn't necissarily making a real scenario, just wondering if the theory is right, that we should all only be slightly negative... for a more realistic example I guess...

with an AL, you are about 4lbs heavy with the gas, at the end that switches to about 4lbs positive, if your weighted right, at 10 feet with an empty tank you should be neutral, that only puts you what, roughly 8lbs heavy at the start?

with a steel you start let's say 6lbs heavy with gas, and at the end 2lbs heavy, so at the start of a dive you should only be negative by about 4lbs right?

I'm just wondering if my theory sounds sound, correct, etc...

I mean I know for me, I'm probably about 8lbs heavy, but my drysuit easily offsets most of that while at the surface, once I get it compressed some with trying to descend, I quickly become that 8lbs negative, and sink like a rock unless I add air to the BC... but still I shouldn't theoretically have to offset more than about 10lbs, right? and as the dive goes on, I need less and less lift...

Does this not sound correct regardless of the divers natural bouyancy, weight, dimensions?

That reminds me, somewhere is a thread or website on choosing wing sizes... anyone have a link to that?

 

[Hop Devil]

Yogi_tala gave you a bum steer on the backplates. The S&W Hammerhead is 316 stainless steel the same as the Fred T. It is also one guage thicker than the Fred T.
I know, cause I have one of each. They are both great plates. The S&W just happens to be a better value in my opinon.

 

[jonnythan]

No, I wasn't... I wasn't necissarily making a real scenario, just wondering if the theory is right, that we should all only be slightly negative... for a more realistic example I guess...

with an AL, you are about 4lbs heavy with the gas, at the end that switches to about 4lbs positive, if your weighted right, at 10 feet with an empty tank you should be neutral, that only puts you what, roughly 8lbs heavy at the start?

with a steel you start let's say 6lbs heavy with gas, and at the end 2lbs heavy, so at the start of a dive you should only be negative by about 4lbs right?

With a drysuit that doesn't change its buoyancy characteristics with depth like a wetsuit, you should be heavy by the gas you're carrying.

If you're carrying an Al 80 or LP 80 you should be negative by the same amount at the start - about 6 pounds.

If you're wearing a steel tank that goes from -6 to -2, then yes you should be heavy by about 4 pounds at the start, but that's not a lot of gas

With a wetsuit, you need to put on extra weight to bring the neoprene below the surface, but it loses its buoyancy at depth.. this means you'll have to be heavy by *more* than the weight of the gas, at least at depth.