The General Angst Over the PADI eLearning Program

[Spratman]

I've already post to this in the other thread. I think it's strictly PADI making the adjustment to the new student clientele. Eventually, they will save loads of bucks by updating course material on-line one time and have it available to students and instructors immediately.

My opinion is that LDS are anticipating doom where there is none. Those who will survive are the ones that are adapting and maintaining an on-line presence. They somehow see themselves being pushed out of the way, as the tractor was to the horse and plow.

Different instructors are going to have different opinions at training. Some will always maintain that you have to do four weeks of classroom and three weeks or pool/ow training regardless of your ability to learn. Some will offer training at the capacity of the students ability to produce desirable results. That is usually semi-private or private lessons. (Frowned upon by most, for reasons that I've already seen in the post.)

I do not dive with a shop, so I didn't care about developing dive buddies. That is why I joined a dive club, and we have our own instructors on board. One teaches out of a shop, one is an independent.

I don't think the e-learning is going to diminish anything. If you happen to get an instructor that doesn't like e-learning, you are going to get the same information again.

Much to do about naught.

 

[all4scuba05]

All this talk about the need for face to face teaching. Go to the University in my town. Sit with 120 students. Listen to a professor talk for 40 minutes. Take good notes quickly. Go home. Study your notes. Show up next week and try scoring a 90 on the test.
I would rather sit at home and "watch" the lesson on my computer in slow motion with rewind and repeat and at my own pace. I then take "quizzes" online. When I show up at the LDS classroom, I ask any questions I have. I take the test and score my 90-100.

 

[elmo6s]

As one of the "gen-x kids" who uses the internet for everything (I do), I feel the need to chime in on this. I'm just 18, and finishing up my DM. I have the opposite reaction to this program than all of you might think.

I think that the internet courses hurt everyone.

For the dive shop, students are in the shop less, and as a result, they don't get used to using the store to buy things. They get used to buying things on the internet. The fact is, you can't get a tank fill on the internet and it's a pain to get gear serviced at an online store. If we teach people to circumvent their LDS, we could have a problem. Dive shops don't make so much money as it is, and taking away the money they do make is simply wrong. We need them (LDS) there, and yet we don't want to support them?

As for the student who is in his teens (as I myself am) I find it appaling that we could learn a potentially deadly sport online. I personally skim everything I read on the internet, and it would be the same if I were to take a scuba course online. I can guarentee that 90% of my generation is the same. This would create a dangerous group of un-educated divers. The absolute opposite of what we want.

I just felt the need to chime in, as I think the PADI e-learning problem could be a very dangerous thing, which is meant to be targeting my age group.

 

[sweatfrog]

Students that complete the eLearning program, including the on-line final exam, will still be required to take an 18 question "quick exam" when they come to the store for the water-skills work. I have a copy of the quick exam and trust me, without learning the information provided in the eLearning program, you could not pass the quick exam.

Sorry Phil, but I must disagree. I was one of six people in my area that reviewed the online ebrochure before PADI sent it out to the masses. I also have a copy of the Quick Review and IMO it's a joke. You can get the answers just by eliminating all the stupid one's.

Any correspondence course I've ever taken has had tests that make you study. The educational experts at PADI act like the're getting a cut from every student that passes. Well, I guess they are.

The Quick Review was supposed to be 20 questions and is still promoted like that on the ebrochure. With 3 table questions, you don't even have to have working knowledge of the tables to pass.

I'm all for the customer, but to dummy down the course like this is just one of many reasons this will suffer the same fate as the ediscover nitrox and escuba review. Ethical PADI Stores and Instructors won't put up with it.

 

[all4scuba05]

:shakehead Amazing that this country or atleast my state, would allow someone to grab a book from the Motor Vehicle Department, go home and read it. Come back and pass a written test. Then get in a car and go driving hoping they can pass the road test. Cars kill more people than diving. I've seen a person doing the road test crash while coming back into the parking lot.
Diving kills alot less people then driving. Yet here we are saying that for diving we shouldn't be learning at home. The instructor should be able to test the student such that any who didn't learn it right don't get passed.
One of the reasons I haven't taken some of the classes I want is because of my rotating work schedule. For me, online would be great. For some, they need to be at the LDS classroom. Not everyone learns the same.

 

[Thalassamania]

E-learning is just another medium. What does it matter if it’s a book, a lecture, a CD, a DVD or the internet? The medium is not the issue, beyond the contact issue that exists with all impersonal media. The real issue is the content, so let's not get lost in the wilderness of which medium is best, some work best for some people and other work better for others, when what we should be doing is expressing our concerns over turning over the question of what is sufficient content to the wunderkinds that brought us 21 hour mastery of scuba.

 

[jjdub]

I have no problem with eLearning, however it puts a HUGE amount of responsibility on the student to regulate himself/herself. However I don't see that it is different at all from taking the book home and doing the chapter reviews. Personally, I read all of the materials thoroughly and did the reviews without looking back into the chapter, but I could have easily filled in the correct answers by simply reading the section headings.

Assessing a student's grasp of material is pretty difficult regardless of the teaching method. I have some experience teaching grad level courses and I encountered plenty of students that knew the information and blew it on the tests as well as many students that could do quite well on exams with a minimal grasp of the material. I found that there was a distinction between memorization and understanding and often essay questions that required reasoning could distinguish between the two, but the type of questions I encountered in the PADI exam strongly favor memorization.

I would vote for a more thorough testing procedure both in the form of written exams and practical exams and leave the method of teaching up to the student.

 

[Spratman]

There are people who do need the LDS to advice them on equipment purchases. We all need them to train through, since it's nearly impossible because of the way the system was built to certify otherwise. These said people are willing to pay huge mark ups on equipment, or think they have no choice because of this same kind of stuff they are hearing.

I researched and studied for over a year before getting certified. Many divers, like myself, do not need the dive shop to inform us what the best purchases are for equipment. The first shop I went in when looking for equipment as a noobie tried to sell me an Apeks ATX200, Black Pearl for $700. Another a SeaQuest Black Diamond for $650.

I will agree that the need for a solid instructor is always important. However, then the instructor is tied by an umbilical cord to the shop. So, how much flexibility does the instructor have really? In recommending equipment....most have to buy the equipment the LDS sells, even if he/she has superior equipment already. Is there any doubt what they will recommend?

Yes, I use several different LDS's. One in particular to get my regs rebuilt because I like his attitude. He told me, I don't care if you buy it from me or the internet. When it breaks, I'll fix it for you. He got my business.

E-learning will take a while until the kinks are worked out of it. It's not going to be the magic bullet. Just like someone who cheats their way through school, so can e-learning be abused. But in this sport, when it catches up to you, you'll be in bad trouble. Depends on the student. Always has and always will.

 

[PhilEllis]

For the dive shop, students are in the shop less, and as a result, they don't get used to using the store to buy things. They get used to buying things on the internet. The fact is, you can't get a tank fill on the internet and it's a pain to get gear serviced at an online store. If we teach people to circumvent their LDS, we could have a problem. Dive shops don't make so much money as it is, and taking away the money they do make is simply wrong. We need them (LDS) there, and yet we don't want to support them?

Elmo6s......I personally think the PADI eLearning does that opposite. It connect a new student to the dive shop in a way not possible before. For one thing, you MUST be a PADI IRRC dive shop to participate. I see no way that it encourages a customer to make purchases on-line. The interaction with the customer will occur exactly as it aways has, maybe even to a stonger degree. Remember, an astute dive shop owner will take the measures necessary to keep in contact with his customers, using all of the communication techniques available to him. On the other hand, an owner the is not astute.......well, we know how that will end up.

As for the student who is in his teens (as I myself am) I find it appaling that we could learn a potentially deadly sport online. I personally skim everything I read on the internet, and it would be the same if I were to take a scuba course online. I can guarentee that 90% of my generation is the same. This would create a dangerous group of un-educated divers. The absolute opposite of what we want.

First, we have to remember that neither PADI, nor anyone else who is responsible, has ever claimed that you can learn to dive on the internet. In the end, EVERY student will spend lots of time with a real PADI instructor, just as it is done today. There is no intent here to teach people to learn to dive on the internet. This isn't the beginning of some "slippery slope" that will lead to that. There will always be water skills work. The need for instructors will be as strong as it has ever been. On the issue of "skimming through the internet stuff"......that will not be possible, except for the person that sets out to game the system. The PADI eLearning is structured such that completion of the eLearning course almost guarantees a through understanding of the material. A solid academic background, supplimented with academic guideance from a qualitified instructor is what everyone wants. This program will assist in accomplishing that.

I just felt the need to chime in, as I think the PADI e-learning problem could be a very dangerous thing, which is meant to be targeting my age group.

It can only be a dangerous thing if we allow it to be. And you are right.....it is targeted exactly at your age group and the learning habits that seem to make sense to your age group. Remember, in just 5 or 10 years, your generation WILL BE the only customers of the dive store of the future. Thanks for your comments.

Phil Ellis

 

[ekewaka]

E-learning is just another medium. What does it matter if it’s a book, a lecture, a CD, a DVD or the internet? The medium is not the issue, beyond the contact issue that exists with all impersonal media. The real issue is the content, so let's not get lost in the wilderness of which medium is best, some work best for some people and other work better for others, when what we should be doing is expressing our concerns over turning over the question of what is sufficient content to the wunderkinds that brought us 21 hour mastery of scuba.

The medium is important because in a lecture, the instructor can add to the content when the PADI material is inadequate. It is more difficult when all the content is on the internet, and the instructor has no control over the process.