The great back inflate vs. jacket BC debate

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"The bp/wing that I've suggested can be easily "swapped over" to work with singles or doubles."

Maybe my observational skill suck too, but what make and model was that? I think the reason the cost of the halcyon was so high was because it was a set and included a computer (I think). I cant seem to find a setup pre assembled with everything I need without the extras.Even the Ranger was a set around $1000. I can find the plates, wings, and a few harnesses seperatley, but that seems to be it. I know I also need weights and tank belts. Anything else? Better yet, just point me to a complete set:D
Once again, great info SeaJay. I appreciated the vids, and Im calling EE today for the book. Im probably going to also go by and pick up some of the course books to review. My certification locally is going to run around $400. All I have to decide is PADI or NAUI. Im probably going to do Naui because from what Ive read/heard its a bit more technical and in depth. Anyone taken both? Opinion? Thanks for all the help and patience.
 
Okay, this is why some of us are really getting irked at your questions. If you actually went to the links that I supplied- instead of just asking questions and ignoring the answers- you would see which models are $505.00 and what is included.

As for your $1000 comparison with a computer- did it come with an SUV to haul the stuff around too?????

C'mon. Do your homework.


XenoMorph2049 once bubbled...
"The bp/wing that I've suggested can be easily "swapped over" to work with singles or doubles."

Maybe my observational skill suck too, but what make and model was that? I think the reason the cost of the halcyon was so high was because it was a set and included a computer (I think). I cant seem to find a setup pre assembled with everything I need without the extras.Even the Ranger was a set around $1000. I can find the plates, wings, and a few harnesses seperatley, but that seems to be it. I know I also need weights and tank belts. Anything else? Better yet, just point me to a complete set:D
Once again, great info SeaJay. I appreciated the vids, and Im calling EE today for the book. Im probably going to also go by and pick up some of the course books to review. My certification locally is going to run around $400. All I have to decide is PADI or NAUI. Im probably going to do Naui because from what Ive read/heard its a bit more technical and in depth. Anyone taken both? Opinion? Thanks for all the help and patience.
 
detroit diver once bubbled...
Okay, this is why some of us are really getting irked at your questions. If you actually went to the links that I supplied- instead of just asking questions and ignoring the answers- you would see which models are $505.00 and what is included.

As for your $1000 comparison with a computer- did it come with an SUV to haul the stuff around too?????

C'mon. Do your homework.


But that would be too much like work....he needs to get out there and start teaching people with his new found knowledge.
 
If you are both Concious and properly weighted you shouldn't have the face floating problem. If you are unconcious however it is a different story.

I personally prefer the back inflation type and so do most of the guys I dive with.

Julie
 
Ok. Now I feel stupid. It seemed like somwhere in his post SeaJay had recommended one. Thanks for the links DD. I guess it just seemed that he was the only one trying to answer my questions without pointing out how ignorant I was. The info I got from ProDive said the requirements for PADI were 6months and 40 or 60 dives. They offer a course for the major certifications, after which you have to come back 6 months later to attend the trainer courses. It just seemed to me that you could forget a lot in 6months if something happened to prevent you from diving. My first job I would prefer a tech field over teaching or better yet getting a job with a company that collects for aquaculturist, bet it fish, rock, sand, or anything else. The only reason Im considering the teaching aspect is it seems thats where a majority of jobs are.
As I have stated before, I was a little worried at the whole aspect of teaching in such a short time. They have told me they will pass no one they wouldnt trust teaching thier family. Thanks for tolerating my ignorance and I appreciate the info.
 
XenoMorph2049 once bubbled...
Maybe my observational skill suck too, but what make and model was that?

If you go to http://www.extreme-exposure.com , you'll see a complete rig for $505, which is well thought of and will lend itself to growth in scuba nicely.

There are many other options as well... I am not a Halcyon rep. :) I do like their stuff, though, and many have commented on the quality of their gear.


I think the reason the cost of the halcyon was so high was because it was a set and included a computer (I think).

Anything's possible, but the people who visit Extreme Exposure generally discourage computers... So I'm inclined to believe that not many would sell a Halcyon bp/wing and a computer package.

But anything's possible. :)

Read the Fundamentals book... It will shed some light on the computer debate... Or at least, one point of view.


I cant seem to find a setup pre assembled with everything I need without the extras.

<snip>

I know I also need weights and tank belts. Anything else? Better yet, just point me to a complete set:D

Frankly, it's not possible for anyone to tell you "everything that you're going to need." In scuba diving, the term "need" is relative anyway. None of us "need" any gear at all... It's more of a "want."

If you just want to get your head under water, then you'll need a mask and a pair of fins. Most agencies will require a snorkel, too.

If you want to scuba dive, then you'll need the above and $50 to rent gear. That should get you everything you "need" for an entire day (multiple dives.)

In order to scuba dive without renting, you'll need the above, a reg set (~$450 or so) and a tank (which you can rent for $10 or so, or have your own... Which still costs $5 or so to fill.)

If you want to be neutral during your dive, you'll need a buoyancy compensating device. New BCD's can run from the low $200 range to nearly $1000. On this board, you'll see bp/wings favored heavily, with good reason.

If you want to stay warm and protected, you'll need a wetsuit - the size and type will depend on the water temperature.

If you want to be able to dive the same suit all the time, regardless of the water temperature, you'll need a drysuit.

If you want to be able to see, then you'll need a light.

If you want to see all the time, you'll need two.

If you want to catch lobster, you'll need a catch bag and a tickle stick.

If you want to catch fish underater, then you'll need a spear gun.

If you want to dive safely, you'll need a cutting tool.

The list goes on and on. Any answer to the question, "What's a complete setup going to cost me" is simply invalid. It really depends on what you plan to do when diving.

If you just want to get down there and see the fishes, then you're going to need a C-card and $50 to rent gear.

...Which is why we've recommended that you wait to buy gear until you figure out what it is that you want to do under there.

If it's really true that you're going to teach... Then you're in luck. Ask the dive shop that you're working for at the time exactly what you need in order to teach their classes. Many shops are strict about this, and won't let you teach in gear that they don't carry in the store... Which would mean that you just bought a $505 Halcyon bp/wing for a purpose that you can't use it for.


My certification locally is going to run around $400.

My Open Water certification ran me about $150... Although I then spent another $120 or so on the dives which were required, and I purchased about $175 in a mask, fins, and a snorkel, all of which were required by the instructor. $400 could be a good deal, depending on what you've gotten for the money.

If I were to truly tell you what I've spent "for a complete package" - that is, what I've spent to date... And including all of the things that I want now... I could scare you. :)


All I have to decide is PADI or NAUI. Im probably going to do Naui because from what Ive read/heard its a bit more technical and in depth. Anyone taken both? Opinion? Thanks for all the help and patience.

I've never taken a NAUI course, so I couldn't give you an educated opinion on NAUI... But it seems to be the general concensus here that the quality of the education depends more on the instructor and his experience than the agency that certifies you.

...Which, by the way, is something to note... And in and of itself might be a reason why not to try to excel quickly from "intro" to "instructor." :)
 
Thanks SeaJay and DD. I think the Pionier is what i am looking for. One of the shops Im looking at has a $130 course if you buy your equipment from them. The gear Ive picked this far is:
Tusa Visualator mask, a small simple snorkle, Jet fins and possibly a pair of liquid blues, Atomic M-1 reg., and probably the Pionier BC. Thats all dependat on whether I like them, althoug the BC will be tricky to try without buying first.
 
Stop for a few weeks and just read up on things, OK?

Go through and spend some serious time reading this board, for starters. Try doing it without starting new question threads like this - you'll learn a lot more just from reading.

For example - you'd discover that you DON'T NEED to try the Pioneer BP/Wings combo - the backplate is infinitely adjustable, and it depends on you re-working the webbing.

You'd also avoid looking like a moron diving a BP/Wings with split fins. I'd also strongly reconsider an Atomic reg - nice reg, but hard to service and not nearly as cost effective as an Apeks.

But then again, if you'd stop and read up on things without plunging in blindly, you'd know that.

Furthermore, Seajay makes an excellent point about the nature of Scuba Instruction. Just about any shop or resort has very strict criteria surrounding gear - so it doesn't really matter what you bought in the past if you end up wanting to teach at that shop.

Which is - aside from the OBVIOUS safety issues re: going from Novice to Instructor in 3 months - why you won't find good reputable people speaking about a place like Hall's in good light.
 
Folks
First of all sorry for my spelling, English is not my natural language.

Xeno
First. Don't lost your entusiasm, I wanted to dive since a boy but couldn't affor it. 7 years ago I discovered this great sport and wonderfull underwater world.
BUT, also open your ears to some experience, put your feets on the ground, plan thoroughly and go step by step.
good luck
:mean:
 
Boogie711 once bubbled...
Stop for a few weeks and just read up on things, OK?

Go through and spend some serious time reading this board, for starters. Try doing it without starting new question threads like this - you'll learn a lot more just from reading.

For example - you'd discover that you DON'T NEED to try the Pioneer BP/Wings combo - the backplate is infinitely adjustable, and it depends on you re-working the webbing.

You'd also avoid looking like a moron diving a BP/Wings with split fins. I'd also strongly reconsider an Atomic reg - nice reg, but hard to service and not nearly as cost effective as an Apeks.

But then again, if you'd stop and read up on things without plunging in blindly, you'd know that.

Furthermore, Seajay makes an excellent point about the nature of Scuba Instruction. Just about any shop or resort has very strict criteria surrounding gear - so it doesn't really matter what you bought in the past if you end up wanting to teach at that shop.

Which is - aside from the OBVIOUS safety issues re: going from Novice to Instructor in 3 months - why you won't find good reputable people speaking about a place like Hall's in good light.

Im not leaving anytime soon. Im trying to gather info before just jumping into this. I sound stupid but at least Im trying to get the facts straight. I know that shops wont let you use something they dont sell, it leaves too many questions as to "why the instructor isnt wearing the same stuff everyone else is". Its product promotion and a comfort to individuals that thier instructor is comfortable and confident with the shops equipment.
I would try just reading threads but they are often not what Im looking for. I have been reading up on things though, just not in a forum. I have been looking for a variety of different reviews and techniques. Take splits for exaple. Some swear by them, where others despise them. On top of opinions, I was looking for facts, such as most people have problems using them in current and end up struggling and gulping air. Im sorry if i didnt know of BP/wings. Ihavve learend of them from this very board. I had never heard of DIR before and am trying to find out more about it.
Please realize reading this stuff can bring many questions up that the answers are just impossible to find. Every one talking of BP/wings seems to know about them, so dont often answer the basic questions. Trust me. I read. All day for that matter. And I use the search, which, in every forum Ive been in, was very lacking in resource. My oppologies if I annoy you, I am just trying to find out information.
 
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