Braunbehrens
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That is precisely what I do. Sometimes it gets tight anyway...I figure if I had enough adrenaline I could probably do it. Also, those blue gloves provide a lot of friction.
The pros and cons of rebuilding your own regulators...
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That is precisely what I do. Sometimes it gets tight anyway...I figure if I had enough adrenaline I could probably do it. Also, those blue gloves provide a lot of friction.
I rebuild my own Scubapro regs, have acquired the tools and test equipment to do it, and got training from a Scubapro tech who admits I do a better job with Scubapro regs than he does (he primarily works on Dacro regs.)
I went this route after having a first stage fail at depth. Upon inspection it was apparent the piston was damaged and equally obvious that the damage could not have occurred inside the reg - the tech who rebuilt it dropped the piston during the overhaul and did not care enough to inspect and replace the piston.
I had also encountered problems with second stages not being set up appropiately for the applications they were used for. It really bites to pay $75 to $130 for an overhaul and then have to readjust it yourself to prevent a freeflow or alternatively to get it to breathe like something other than a rock.
The third reason I do my own maintainence is that with a Mk 25 D400, a MK 20 D400, a Mk 15 D400, a Mk 10 D400 and several Mk 10 Balanced Adjustables for me, the spousal unit, my son, and the various stage bottles and deco tanks, the cost of servicing all of them annually was getting prohibitive.
So.... I do my own regs, I know they are done right, I and my diving benefit from the knowledge of exactly how they work and why and I save money to boot.
However, I would not under any circumstances rebuild a reg for someone else. The liability issue is a pretty daunting regardless of the quality of the work.
I went this route after having a first stage fail at depth. Upon inspection it was apparent the piston was damaged and equally obvious that the damage could not have occurred inside the reg - the tech who rebuilt it dropped the piston during the overhaul and did not care enough to inspect and replace the piston.
I had also encountered problems with second stages not being set up appropiately for the applications they were used for. It really bites to pay $75 to $130 for an overhaul and then have to readjust it yourself to prevent a freeflow or alternatively to get it to breathe like something other than a rock.
The third reason I do my own maintainence is that with a Mk 25 D400, a MK 20 D400, a Mk 15 D400, a Mk 10 D400 and several Mk 10 Balanced Adjustables for me, the spousal unit, my son, and the various stage bottles and deco tanks, the cost of servicing all of them annually was getting prohibitive.
So.... I do my own regs, I know they are done right, I and my diving benefit from the knowledge of exactly how they work and why and I save money to boot.
However, I would not under any circumstances rebuild a reg for someone else. The liability issue is a pretty daunting regardless of the quality of the work.
shrwdtech
Contributor
Have all the tools, parts, and instruments of a major equipment manufacturer at their disposal.
Well lets see. I have been a tehnician with a European auto manufacture for over 30 yrs. I can overhaul automatic transmissions, engines, fuel injection both gas and diesel in fact I am rated as a master of my trade by the manufacture and am a member of the Masters Guild of Mercedes Benz. I dont overhaul my own regs because there is more than just getting the parts in the right place that matters and I havnt been willing to do the learn it and buy the tool thing so I pay a LDS and its never bitten me in the backside. So I vote for having a proffesional tech do it and I wont have to think about it at 100 feet. Just my thoughts on this particular post.
Bill
Bill
Well Dyno Bill............
No offence, and I'm sure you're what you say you are, but IF you're that good, you'd realize it takes something JUST a bit smarter than the tool you use, to fix these rather simplistic things.......
Holy crap boys.......I've seen complete idiots dodge bullets for decades...you'd do a better job in a heart beat!
Quite simply, if you've buggered it up, you'd know via your tests WELL before it ever hit the water. And for extra extra extra safety, take it to the 30ft quarry first.........and bring a spare pony, and do one reg at a time, and and and and and......
WOW...........
The actual DIVING is statistically more dangerous than you rebuilding your reg.
DO I think about it at 100ft?? SURE I do. I think about everything at 200ft too..........my mask strap, my canister light, my diver plan, the over plan, my mental math, my BURST DISK(s)........my heart, that nagging pounding it sometimes gets, accompanying the pain.................
Tends to go away after 10 minutes on the boat
You think I'm kidding?????
No offence, and I'm sure you're what you say you are, but IF you're that good, you'd realize it takes something JUST a bit smarter than the tool you use, to fix these rather simplistic things.......
Holy crap boys.......I've seen complete idiots dodge bullets for decades...you'd do a better job in a heart beat!
Quite simply, if you've buggered it up, you'd know via your tests WELL before it ever hit the water. And for extra extra extra safety, take it to the 30ft quarry first.........and bring a spare pony, and do one reg at a time, and and and and and......
WOW...........
The actual DIVING is statistically more dangerous than you rebuilding your reg.
DO I think about it at 100ft?? SURE I do. I think about everything at 200ft too..........my mask strap, my canister light, my diver plan, the over plan, my mental math, my BURST DISK(s)........my heart, that nagging pounding it sometimes gets, accompanying the pain.................
Tends to go away after 10 minutes on the boat
You think I'm kidding?????
In response to the last post I guess I might have to be a bit more frank. There are many people involved in this sport, some are technical and others shine in the business world. I am exactly who I represented in my post and because I might find a certain mechanical device simple in its design and easily D/A'd and set up that doesnt imply in any way that everyone here might be as mechanically inclined. In fact some folks are in fact confused by the incredibly simple way that a lamp works, I wouldnt in any way encourage someone to re-wire a lamp that I didnt know and the worst case scenario in that case would be a blown fuse. I cant for a moment encourage someone that I am not familiar with to do a d/a on his or her life support equipment for the purpose of saving 75 bucks. It just wouldnt be a responsible thing for me to do. I have taught way to many youngsters to be mechanics in my life and am familiar with the average rate of failure in at least the automotive industry for an apprentice. Thats why I posted what I did to start.
Bill
Bill
ScoobieDooo
Guest
A friend of mine who has been diving and making scuba gear once said "If you can install a kitchen faucet - you can service your own regulator."
With Vance Harlow's book, some simple tools and a brand-specific service manual I don't think it should be THAT difficult to do, however, I'm sure there are tricks and shortcuts that the pro's know what we won't. As in everything, I suppose it can be learned thru time and experience - as I will see for myself.
However, the element of seriousness being this IS life support equipment makes this a lot more serious. But after hearing stories of scuba shops dropping and scoring 1st stage pistons, etc. at least if I do my own, I know it will be done unrushed, carefully and very neatly as its MY OWN @SS if I screw it up. Thats a big motivator in my book for doing something right the first time, and doing it well.
With Vance Harlow's book, some simple tools and a brand-specific service manual I don't think it should be THAT difficult to do, however, I'm sure there are tricks and shortcuts that the pro's know what we won't. As in everything, I suppose it can be learned thru time and experience - as I will see for myself.
However, the element of seriousness being this IS life support equipment makes this a lot more serious. But after hearing stories of scuba shops dropping and scoring 1st stage pistons, etc. at least if I do my own, I know it will be done unrushed, carefully and very neatly as its MY OWN @SS if I screw it up. Thats a big motivator in my book for doing something right the first time, and doing it well.
So when you do your own yearly service what do you use to set your intermediate pressure abd iss there any adjustments to modify the delivery pressure from your second stage. I would imagine you use a full tank to supply the primary pressure for your set-ups. And I am curious as to what type of cleaning method is used on the internal pieces to eliminate salt deposits as well as any metalic deposits caused by electrolitic actiction. Just curious about methods used by others, thanks.
Bill
PS, I have never heard of pieces being dropped and or damaged from negligent technicians. I wouldnt have someone service my gear that wasnt a diver, in fact I havnt had anyone service my stuff that I havnt dove with.
Bill
PS, I have never heard of pieces being dropped and or damaged from negligent technicians. I wouldnt have someone service my gear that wasnt a diver, in fact I havnt had anyone service my stuff that I havnt dove with.
I check IP at both ~500 psi and with a full HP tank (3500 psi), and also do a leakdown test with a full tank for at least an hour.
IP and leakdown have to be stable for that amount of time or I'm not satisfied and check why. I also test after I'm done in the pool - personally.
I know of not one paid tech in 1000 who will take that much time to verify their work.
As for second adjustments, I have an inline tool - its not strictly necessary, but saves a lot of time screwing around with pressurizing and depressurizing the stage between adjustments.
BTW, I use "generic" O-rings in my piston regs, and have yet to have a problem. I don't use cheap ones, and DO use EPDM O-rings, which are FAR more abrasion-resistant than VITON (pretty comparable to Buna-N) but have good oxygen resistance - unlike Buna-N.
Yes, even the HP piston O-ring on piston firsts and the large piston ring (which is exposed only to IP, but is large and is a major wear item.) I've not had trouble with leaks or extrusion doing this, although I'm well aware that it is not "recommended."
(Those two O-rings are dynamic seals on a piston reg and abrasion resistance is a REALLY BIG DEAL for both of them. Viton simply isn't up to the job although it has decent O2 resistance in Nitrox service. Polyurethane probably is on both counts, and is what SP appears to be using as OE for their HP piston ring now on most of their regs, but EPDM is pretty darn close in terms of material stability and wear resistance, has good O2 characteristics, and is readily available.)
YMMV, and you'll never hear me recommend using anything other than factory-spec parts for anyone else, but then again I tend to tear down my regs every three to six months, and if there's a problem in the making I will catch it before it hoses me. I also check IP stability on a frequent basis (usually monthly) or anytime that something just doesn't seem quite right.
I've yet to have one of my regs do anything bad in actual use.
As for cleaning deposits and such, I have an ultrasonic cleaner, and have never had to use anything more harsh than vinegar. For ordinary cleaning all I typically need is diluted Simple Green.
IP and leakdown have to be stable for that amount of time or I'm not satisfied and check why. I also test after I'm done in the pool - personally.
I know of not one paid tech in 1000 who will take that much time to verify their work.
As for second adjustments, I have an inline tool - its not strictly necessary, but saves a lot of time screwing around with pressurizing and depressurizing the stage between adjustments.
BTW, I use "generic" O-rings in my piston regs, and have yet to have a problem. I don't use cheap ones, and DO use EPDM O-rings, which are FAR more abrasion-resistant than VITON (pretty comparable to Buna-N) but have good oxygen resistance - unlike Buna-N.
Yes, even the HP piston O-ring on piston firsts and the large piston ring (which is exposed only to IP, but is large and is a major wear item.) I've not had trouble with leaks or extrusion doing this, although I'm well aware that it is not "recommended."
(Those two O-rings are dynamic seals on a piston reg and abrasion resistance is a REALLY BIG DEAL for both of them. Viton simply isn't up to the job although it has decent O2 resistance in Nitrox service. Polyurethane probably is on both counts, and is what SP appears to be using as OE for their HP piston ring now on most of their regs, but EPDM is pretty darn close in terms of material stability and wear resistance, has good O2 characteristics, and is readily available.)
YMMV, and you'll never hear me recommend using anything other than factory-spec parts for anyone else, but then again I tend to tear down my regs every three to six months, and if there's a problem in the making I will catch it before it hoses me. I also check IP stability on a frequent basis (usually monthly) or anytime that something just doesn't seem quite right.
I've yet to have one of my regs do anything bad in actual use.
As for cleaning deposits and such, I have an ultrasonic cleaner, and have never had to use anything more harsh than vinegar. For ordinary cleaning all I typically need is diluted Simple Green.
Thanks again for the post Genesis.....
Once again a no-nonsense approach to Reg servicing. He's right on all accounts, there's NO LDS tech that would spend that much time, they couldn't. No that that is neccessarily a bad thing, but the bottom line is, you do more.
One note for the "little" things that long-time "real" techs will always do better than us "novices". It was pointed out to me tonight by a superb diver and Reg technician.........A reg of mine had a deteriorated O-ring in the works..not leaking, yet. He was simply looking at my Reg on the boat tonight, and noticed some flaking at a hose fitting into my 1st stage. (This stage/hose combo) has been dove MAYBE 20 times since brand new) We undid it, and sure enough, a bad O-ring in the making. He pointed it out, and then sure I noticed the same thing. The funny thing is, he saw it first and I might not have.
Mind you, this guy is good. He posts here on this board from time to time.
Mind you number 2, I wasn't the one to install this hose onto this Stage, and I said as much. I ponted out it was probably installed "dry" which is why it would have failed early.
Fortunately, this would have been caught anyways, before it became a real problem.
Fortunately number 2, I DID catch a leaking BC inflator tube-to-bladder fitting, the other day, which would have been more disasterous to the diver it if would have failed and "popped" off!!!
It all goes to show how meticulous we all have to be about ALL our gear.
Once again a no-nonsense approach to Reg servicing. He's right on all accounts, there's NO LDS tech that would spend that much time, they couldn't. No that that is neccessarily a bad thing, but the bottom line is, you do more.
One note for the "little" things that long-time "real" techs will always do better than us "novices". It was pointed out to me tonight by a superb diver and Reg technician.........A reg of mine had a deteriorated O-ring in the works..not leaking, yet. He was simply looking at my Reg on the boat tonight, and noticed some flaking at a hose fitting into my 1st stage. (This stage/hose combo) has been dove MAYBE 20 times since brand new) We undid it, and sure enough, a bad O-ring in the making. He pointed it out, and then sure I noticed the same thing. The funny thing is, he saw it first and I might not have.
Mind you, this guy is good. He posts here on this board from time to time.
Mind you number 2, I wasn't the one to install this hose onto this Stage, and I said as much. I ponted out it was probably installed "dry" which is why it would have failed early.
Fortunately, this would have been caught anyways, before it became a real problem.
Fortunately number 2, I DID catch a leaking BC inflator tube-to-bladder fitting, the other day, which would have been more disasterous to the diver it if would have failed and "popped" off!!!
It all goes to show how meticulous we all have to be about ALL our gear.
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