The Real "F

[divemistress]

Feminist​

Many women keep the word at arm's distance today -- the same way many men still treat dirty diapers.


"I'm not a feminist," one woman says, "but I do believe in equal pay for equal work."
"I'm no feminist," says another, "but I think women should have the same opportunities men do."

Huh? They would doubtless be surprised to hear it, but their beliefs make them feminists. Not man-hating Medusas, simply people who believe in equal rights, equal opportunities and equal responsibilities for both genders.

A ScubaBoard mod recently wrote in another thread: "I'm not trying to be a feminist here, but I think ......"

Think what? What do you think, those of you who avoid the label while sharing the beliefs? What makes the word so ugly to you?

Surely there are uglier "F" words. F-A-T, for one.


Curious.....


DM

 

[lostinspace]

I personally hate being labelled.

 

[Zoe83]

To me, the word feminist has become negative. It doesnt have the meaning it once did. when feminism started up, it meant equality, rights, but not now. now it tends to describe a man-hater: unequal rights, sexism, bitterness and negativity. I see your point divemistess, feminism should have remained as it began, equal rights for women, seen as positive, but unfortunately i beleive it has taken a turn for the worse, and given some women an 'excuse' to rally on about some things that do not represent equality amongst men & women. I do not like a label either..

 

[divemistress]

I personally hate being labelled.

isn't it simplistic? i mean, we are labelled all day every day, in various ways, for various purposes, at least in the u.s.

1) i am not a woman, but i do have ovaries and uterus.
2) i am not a southerner, but i do live in virginia.
3) i am not liberal, although i tend to support liberal causes. (hmmm, does that make me conservative???)

some words eventually become so loaded, they carry meaning far beyond their original definition. but others are simply verbal shorthand and, while incomplete, are a quick and easy way of summarizing detail often not worth recounting.

just my $.02

dm

 

[BacardiSpice]

Good points, DM!

The word is certainly loaded, unfortunately. I remember many years ago my mother shying away from the word 'feminist', which surprised me. She believed in equal pay for equal work, equal opportunities for women, and the concept that people should not be straightjacketed into gender preconceptions. She was one of the strongest, most independant women I knew, but she was afraid of the term - it had become too loaded. I'm pleased to say that in more recent years she has embraced it.

The problem is that the term 'feminist' has become associated in many people's minds with Radical or Seperatist Feminism. This POV holds that all women are suppressed by all men. It tends to give rise to such silliness as 'a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle' and rants about not shaving one's legs and not wearing makeup, because these are the tools of the oppresive male patriarchy etc etc.

But this is only one concept of feminism, which is a very diverse philosphical approach. 'Cultural Feminism' holds that women have much to give through their own unique roles as women, 'Socialist Feminists' holds some Marxist tenants, but views gender as having a role in oppression as well as economic factors, 'Liberal Feminists' view every person as equal and inequity as a result of socialisation, etc etc. There are eco-feminists, spiritual-feminists, seperatist feminists, etc etc. There are so many shadings of belief within the feminist movement that it's impossible to make sweeping generalisations, and yet people attempt to do so.

'You can't be a feminist' I've been told. 'You wear makeup, shave your legs, and wear heels.' No point in trying to explain to that person that feminism, as I view it, is about choice. I should feel perfectly free to dress as I choose - and that includes wearing or not wearing make-up. Worse still is the 'do you hate men?' angle. Nope - I love 'em. Well, a lot of them. I enjoy being with men, I have fun with them, and I've had great relationships with all sorts of males as family, friends and partners.

I believe in a feminist approach that is liberating for men as well. I think men should be freed from expectations as a result of traditional gender roles - if a man wants to stay home and look after the kids in a marriage, more power to him! I want true equality - not the supression of men. Equating feminism with strident man-hating is not representative of the grassroots feminism I know and support. It's sad that so many young women who are now enjoying the equalities that women of previous generations fought so hard for now associate it with the caricatures that are perpetuated as representatives of movement, but which are in fact extremists that are unrepresentative of folks like me.

As Rebecca West said in 1913,

"I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat."

 

[Nomaster]

As Rebecca West said in 1913,

Quote:
"I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat."

I believe that, because of this quote, the lable feminist began as a pejorative, therefore it might be well to eschew the term.
If the name was created to besmirch a good person or a good movement, perhaps the movement should have adopted a name that more fit the purpose of that movement, say, "egalitarian".
Egalitarianism is what I thought the movement stood for when I was very young, but in college I saw the change and became alarmed that all women would become the way a few had.
Consider the word "egalitarian" or one of its synonyms, and leave the caustic tongues of men who opposed the movement to history.

Tom

 

[lostinspace]

isn't it simplistic? i mean, we are labelled all day every day, in various ways, for various purposes, at least in the u.s.

I'm not in the u.s.a..
and just because we are labelled doesn't mean I have to accept those labels.

 

[BacardiSpice]

I believe that, because of this quote, the lable feminist began as a pejorative, therefore it might be well to eschew the term.

Not really, Tom. The word actually has its origins in France in the 1880s, coined by suggeragist Hubertine Auclert- feminisme (although the motivating ideas behind it have a much longer history). It has been suggested that it came to the US in the 1906 through an article about a French Suffragist named Madeline Pelletier. It didn't really enter the popular lexicon until the 60s/70s - prior to then time the phrase 'women's liberationist' was the preferred term. However, as 'women's libber' began to carry perjorative overtones, it was abandoned for 'feminist'! Now, of course, some folks attribute a negative connotation to that word as well.

What's important to me is not the word - it's the concepts behind it. Mary Wollstonecraft wrote A Vindication of the Rights of Women long before there were labels like "women's libbers" or "feminists", for example. I don't go around proclaiming I'm a feminist, any more than I go around proclaiming any of my other philosophical beliefs. If it comes up in conversation, however, I'm happy to say that sure, I'm a feminist. If we adopted another term to embrace the same concepts, it would be just as abhorant to some individuals. You're still going to have the same types of people hijacking the debate - both the radical fringe who have 'issues' with men, and the people who feel threatened by or just don't like concepts of equality.

I'm pleased to say that my experiences with those who embrace feminism have been overwhelmingly positive - I've known a few radical women who were embittered about men, but most of the feminists I know are intelligent, moderate individuals who are honestly striving for a fairer world. I don't always agree with them - some aspects of cultural feminism I find appealing, for example, and some I don't - but they're not the shrill, strident man-haters that they're caricatured as.

 

[The Kraken]

Seems to me that most of the women nowadays that want to be called feminists no longer look very feminine . . . .

 

[procyon]

For a lot of people the term feminist brings to mind the militant or radical feminists of past times. Women to whom we owe a great deal however we don't necessarily wish to be identified with those women.

One of my favourite statements is that I've never felt the need to beat anyone over the head with a stick to let them know I was a woman, I always felt it was fairly obvious.

To my mind, it's not so much about equal as it is about fair. You accept each person for their abilities and talents be they male or female. I wouldn't expect a 5', 100 lb woman to be able to lift massive amounts of weight but neither would I expect that of a man of similar size and there are some, they just aren't so common.

It's not about me proving I can do what anyone else can do, it's about me taking advantage of my talents and using them to the greatest benefit. And being in the army, that's what it's been about for me every day for the last 18 years.