Time to convert - BP/W

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Well, the decision is that I will build my own.

As far as the purchase, I am keeping my eye on ebay as well as researching several BP options. Currently I am leaning towards Deep Sea Supply. I like what I see so far.

My LDS has the Deepoutdoors Matrix Freedom in stock so I am going to look at it to see how it’s configured but only for ideas. I am in no big rush. I am also headed to Salt Lake City for a few days around the holidays and plan on a visit to Dive Addicts. They are heavy into technical diving and may be able to show me more configurations and options. A friend of a friend runs the shop so it’s a good opportunity to maybe try on a few systems and maybe even jump in a warm crater with one on..

I want to thank everyone for the input. It has been a great education for me and reduced some of my fears. I guess the big decision will be what material type of BP and the weight issue.

Typically I use 6 lbs weight with my vest BC and an AL80. I imagine it’s positively buoyant by at least a couple lbs being that it’s got a plastic frame and BP. Going with the Stainless BP I could probably eliminate the need for weights completely and maybe even be a tad bit negative. I guess some experimenting in shallow water and the pool might be a good first step before jumping in on a wall with several thousand feet for a bottom. :05:

Keep the ideas coming, I will keep watching.

Scooter
 
LavaSurfer:
I would like something versatile. I would guess that 70-80% of my time would be spent with a single AL80 doing reef dives or wall dives with the wife. The time on these dives would be the NDL for the dives or until I run out of gas. She always lasts longer than I.

Cave diving or Cavern diving would be probably done without my wife and would be the other 20-30% of my time. More technical, duals with lots of gadgets i.e lights, reels etc…

Then there is the time that I want to spend on a wreck or wall and use doubles and potentially get into situations where I have to deal with DECO. Those are not in the near future (18 Months) but I want to move in that direction. Basically these dives would be in the ranges of AIR or EAN and not stepping into the world of trimix at all. Not yet anyway.

Scooter, sorry... everytime I sit down to respond something comes up and I have to run...

I think that you misunderstood what I meant about versatility. Forget doubles and deco and caves and walls for a minute. Think exposure protection. With that in mind... and if I'm reading you right... it seems that you are pretty much using light suits... a polartec or a 3 mil... for almost all of your diving right now. As such, you have a relatively light weight requirement. You are not using a thick wetsuit or a drysuit with a thick undergarment and you're not switching back and forth between different suits like some of us here that dive cold water one day and really warm water the next.

So... maybe you don't really want a "versatile rig". Maybe... you might like a rig that is especially tuned to the light exposure protection, warm water diving.

If so, then a relatively small wing would be very sweet. The absolute best, IMHO, is the Halcyon Batwing. It is a single layer bladder, tiny 18 pound lift, horseshoe design. It almost disappears between the backplate and cylinder. For travel, it folds up very small and takes up little space... much less than any of the inner bladder/ outer shell type wings of higher lift. It is well crafted with a rugged material and solid seams and has an appropriately short corrugated inflator hose and an old style, dependable... yet easily replacable... inflator.

It also is quite unique and uncommon to see at dive sites because... and here's the catch... they don't make it any more. Nevertheless, they can still be found in great shape... sometimes even new... by keeping an eye on the gear sections here and over on TDS. IMO, for light exposure protection, low weight requirement, warm water diving, this baby is t$ts... a classic light weight wing. If minimalism is a goal, then this is The Minimalist. You'll feel slick as butter wearing this wing.

If you are not so keen on waiting for one to show up, then there are some other wings that might fit the bill. I believe that Tobin makes a small 20# wing and the Oxycheq 18# Razor might still be available. Though I have no personal experience with either, I would guess that both are very nice given the rep of these two manufacturers.

The disadvantage to a tiny wing is of course... versatilty. Though they probably would be just fine for use with moderate weight requirements, they won't cut it if you go to a heavy wetsuit or a drysuit with thick undergarments. For those situations a larger wing in the 27 to 35 pound lift is more typical.

As far as a plate and harness is concerned, the most unique solutions available are products from Deep Sea Supply. If you appreciate fine craftmanship, then you will be delighted with Tobin's plates. They are significantly flatter than most of the other plates, resulting in a lower profile and this presumably makes reaching the valves a little easier. I like the molded in grommets that Tobin has placed in the webbing slots. They reduce wear on the straps but more importantly make adustments a snap... much quicker and easier than messing with the triglides found on most other harnesses.

Deep Sea also offers a lightweight Kydex plate that might interest you. If you are really counting pounds with your luggage in mind, then this is going to be the lightest plate you are going to find. When you get to your destination, however, you are going to have to suppliment this plate with some weight either on a belt or in some cam band weight pockets. Personally, I never get that tight with my packing, and often travel with both a standard SS and AL plate. I prefer to have all the weight on my back and this usually means a SS plate and STA or an AL plate, STA and cannister light.

There are several other very nice plates available. Again, if you are looking for something original or a little special then you could try to find a FredT plate. Fred's plates are special because...well... they're FredT plates. I think his plates really stand out when one is looking for a thicker, heavier plate... like a 9 or 12 or even 15 pound plate. Still... all of Fred's stuff is very nice. The only problem is that since Katrina, Fred's plates are pretty hard to come by. I suppose you could pm him here on SB and ask if he is back in business. But, as far as I know, he still isn't offering plates at this time.

Of course, the plates from Halcyon and Oxycheq are fine as well. Standard, basic stuff. Very nice quality.

Regarding harnesses and hardware... Oxycheq, Deep Sea Supply, and Halcyon have some really good stuff. I get my webbing from Reef Scuba... as innexpensive as you will find for quality webbing and without the silly logos found on the Halcyon webbing. I then order my hardware form Oxycheq. I also have found that the crotch strap from DSS is too short. I get mine from Oxycheq and Extreme Exposure.



LavaSurfer:
What do you have in mind?
I'm just trying to get to know you a little better so that I can give some suggestions that might be just right for you. I have some other ideas but I gotta run.
 
Stephen Ash:
Scooter, sorry... everytime I sit down to respond something comes up and I have to run...
I'm just trying to get to know you a little better so that I can give some suggestions that might be just right for you. I have some other ideas but I gotta run.

Good info, Thanks Stephen.
This is the kind of info I am looking for.

I worry that 18# won't be enough lift but what do I know.
Diving where I will most of the time it sounds as if it might be enough.

A doubles setup would require more lift and a new wing.
I read about 45#, 50#, 80# and think crap, thats a lot of lift.
My current BC has around 30# I think and thats a lot of lift.
Fill it up and you shoot up like a cork!:05:

I plan on digesting all this info from everyone over the weekend. There is a lot to look at.
 
cool_hardware52:
We make 'em longer now, ~8 inches longer.


Tobin

Cool!

I'm putting the short one on my youngest boy's rig. Should be just about perfect!
 
LavaSurfer:
I worry that 18# won't be enough lift but what do I know.
Diving where I will most of the time it sounds as if it might be enough.

A doubles setup would require more lift and a new wing.
I read about 45#, 50#, 80# and think crap, thats a lot of lift.
My current BC has around 30# I think and thats a lot of lift.
Fill it up and you shoot up like a cork!:05:

Most folks have a bladder with way more lift than they will ever need.

Trust me...18 is plenty for what you are doing now. In fact, you could go even smaller - but I don't know of any smaller wings.

The catch, of course, is that if you start doing some colder water stuff you will need to get another single wing. And... a 27# Pioneer, for instance, isn't much bigger in profile than the little Batwing.

Still... until you start diving colder water... the smaller lift single wings are perfectly suited for what you are doing now. I see the larger wings as more of a compromise. That's fine... if that's what you want.
 
LavaSurfer:
I plan on digesting all this info from everyone over the weekend. There is a lot to look at.

Well... don't let me confuse you. I feel pretty sure that you could order up one of Tobin's rigs...say an LCD30 wing, SS plate, and hog harness... and you would love it. Great price, wonderfully hand-crafted. It would work great for what you are doing now and would give you room to dive in colder water conditions. If your weight requirement went way up...say you needed a lot more for your drysuit... then you could bolt on one of his weight plates to put an easy 14# on your back. In fact, this would be a great way for you to go. Tobin's price on this deal is probably better than you will find anywhere and the quality and attention to detail is most obvious. Even though it is sort of a "kit"... it's really not. Think of it as a modular component system. You still will have to put it together. And... it is indeed, very unique.

If you want something that is less forward thinking but still of great quality, get a Halcyon or Oxycheq setup. Again...don't think of these as a pre-made kit. These rigs really aren't much different than putting together your own deal.
 
Exactly Stephen. I had to assemble my Halcyon system.. the only thing done was that the harness was threaded. Still need a LOT of adjustment though.
 
PerroneFord:
Exactly Stephen. I had to assemble my Halcyon system.. the only thing done was that the harness was threaded. Still need a LOT of adjustment though.

Yah... The advantages of a DIY rig are really pretty subtle.

Some folks "build their own" to save money but I don't believe they are really saving much. It's pretty hard to put together a rig on your own for less than what it would cost to buy one from Tobin, for instance. I suspect those that actually do save a significant amount do so buy purchasing components of lesser quality. This is like anything else... you get what you pay for. Of course, there is also the opportunity to pay a little extra for the name... you know...a Halcyon tax and such. But in general, it's really not that excessive.

The actual process of "building your own" rig mostly differs from purchasing a name brand by the ordering process. Lots of orders to different places, tracking numbers, and package arrivals. But after all the gear is gathered, putting it together is the same as if you bought all that stuff from the same place.

I think the biggest advantage of 'building you own" is the fact that you can match up specific...read personally preffered... components from different manufactures. For instance... one could pair up a DSS kydex plate with a single layer Pioneer wing and have a killer light weight rig. Or... one could put a FredT heavy with an Agir single for a bullet proof solution for a problematic drysuit - Al80 combo.

Of course, some of us get accused of building "Frankenteins"... but the fact is, we just get a kick out of tweaking stuff.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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