Training Agency Preference

[Mack Diver]

I am a long time recreational and technical diving instructor (PADI, NAUI, TDI). I am also a former volunteer firefighter and current member of a volunteer dive emergency team. I'm interested in expanding my instructional certifications to cover public safety diving. There are several local volunteer departments in the area that are interested in swift water training as well as public safety diving. There are several agencies offering certification, including PSDA & ERDI.

My question is, Is there a referred agency out there that most public safety organizations prefer to use? Not saying that one is necessarily better than the other, just that one might be more widely recognized or have some aspect of their training that makes them preferred.

Any suggestions you can make are appreciated. Please feel free to PM me if you think your comments might start a useless string of commentary.

 

[Gary D.]

DRI

Gary D.

 

[bridgediver]

and finally...
Team Lifeguard Systems - Public Safety Diving Training Equipment other Water Operations Rescue/Recovery

These 4 (LGS, DRI, ERDI, PSDA) are the only real PSD training orgs in North America

 

[tc]

ERDI.

Gives us a good solid basic framework and then gives us the freedom to tailor the class for our local needs.

 

[dittrimd]

I think you need to look at it from the team perspective vs. individual one. Our team being a regional team comprised of different fire departments has faced some challenges from members taking classes from different organizations. Some of our guys have taken Lifeguard Systems and some have taken Dive Rescue International. Fundamentally they are similar but the devil is always in the details. I wish our team had just picked one organization but they leave it up to the individual fire departments. Don't get me wrong any PSD training is beneficial but for the team it should all be from the same organization.

Our most difficult issues have been with line signaling and certain types of gear selection. There are plenty of older posts that talk about some of the differences. Bridgediver and I have had at least one lengthy I remember.

I would recommend doing thorough research into each training organization and see how their curriculum would fit into your team. I cannot speak to PSDA or ERDI but LGS and DRI are both very professional and capable organizations with a lot to offer any team. It just comes down to finding the organization that best suits your team environment.

Best of Luck!!

Mark D.

 

[Mack Diver]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Honestly, I had not heard of LGS or DRI, but I will look into them. I agree that the team training be consistent. The training lieutenant for the volunteer dive team has been using the PSD book even though he is not an instructor for them. One if the local agencies was PSD, but they disbanded the team last year in a budget battle. The training chief for the city FD is a NAUI CD. I'm not sure what the sheriff's department bases their training on. Obviously, more research is necessary. I'm hoping to get all of the volunteer departments as closely aligned to the paid departments as possible since there will be occasion when they work together.

 

[17-40]

Our county dive team just had LGS put on the class for the departments in the county It was very demanding from what I got for feed back they all seemed to enjoy the class if you can give up the four straight days of class I couldn't take it though with my schedule this time around due to being in school already two of the days

 

[BladesRobinson]

I don't normally like to toot the Dive Rescue International "horn" or pat ourselves on the back too hard but the question has been asked so I would like to weigh in with some facts.

The following online poll is from the SARdiver forum at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAR-Diver

Choices (line one)​

Votes (on following line)​

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: YMCA
4

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: ***other***
31

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: SSI
33

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: TDI
23

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: Dive Rescue International
59

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: ERDI
10

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: IANTD
15

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: Life Guard Systems
18

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: NAPD
3

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: NASDS
6

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: NAUI
32

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: PADI
73

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: PSDA
8



A similar poll was conducted on the PSDiving forum with the following results:

Choices (line one)​

Votes (on following line)​

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: YMCA
5

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: SSI
19

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: TDI
13

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: Dive Rescue International
23

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: ERDI
8

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: IANTD
10

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: Life Guard Systems
7

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: NAPD
3

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: NASDS
3

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: NAUI
25

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: PADI
45

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: PSDA
4

I have attended scuba training programs offered by: ***other***
18



Clearly, Dive Rescue International is the largest and most widely recognized public safety diving training agency. With a high degree of bias I believe we are the best but I let other forum members weigh in on this issue.

As a professional, I also recognize the benefits of all of the PSD training programs offered by our training partners. We are ALL committed ot the safety of public safety divers. Some of the details that seperates Dive Rescue International from the other agencies include:

1) Dive Rescue International is the oldest agency offering PSD specific training programs. Other agencies may make the same claim but an examination of public records and comparison of the date of incorporation verify this fact. By making false claims, one might question the integrity of the organization(s) making this claim.

2) Dive Rescue International is the largest PSD specific training provider. This is verified partially by the online polls previous listed and though they are not totally inclusive they fairly represent the industry.

3) All of the Dive Rescue International training programs are taught by REAL public safety divers. The instructors can "walk the walk" and "talk the talk" because they have "been there, done that." All of our students are REAL public safety divers too. Participants must be affiliated with a recognized PSD team.

4) Based on the input of thousands of public safety divers who take our training programs each year, the programs are under continuous review and revised when needed. Last year we published the fourth edition of the Dive Rescue 1 Specialist Manual. We have made minor updates to the manual twice in the past 12 months.

5) Dive Rescue International developed the 4 pull line signal system that has been adopted by ERDI, PSDA, and IANTD. This effective and proven system allow teams who choose a "partners'" training system to work together since everyone uses a common set of line signals.

The list can go on but I am hopeful I have provided forum members with enough information.

Again, I am not bashing our training "partners" and I respect what they offer, I just believe Dive Rescue International training is better and I believe that is why most PSD choose our company over the others.

Respectfully,

Blades Robinson, Director
Dive Rescue International
www.DiveRescueIntl.com

 

[dittrimd]

I have had the good fortune to take both LGS and DRI. Both are excellent programs with a lot of experience and effort put into the curriculum. Butch and Andrea on the LGS side were the consummate professionals and were very passionate about the teaching. Steve Salach the instructor for my DR1 class was fantastic as well.

In my previous post I mentioned about finding the class that fits your team’s mission. I will post a few of my opinions based on what I feel best suits my team. Again any comments against one or the other are not a true negative about the training rather that it did not fit with our team.

My team is a Volunteer Fire Department based team. We are made up from a regional county structure of 14 towns and 22 agencies. We meet once a month and drill once a month. We train to be a rescue dive team vs. a recovery team. We are mainly a life safety team and do not regularly perform evidence recovery although we have on occasion through the years been asked to assist local LEA. We do not regularly do victim recovery although we are partnered with a local police dive team and have been asked to provide backup to their team if they have a prolonged operation.

As for the training here is what is similar. Most of the gear recommendations are the same although LGS takes it a bit further and is a bit more adamant about gear selection vs. DRI which makes recommendations and falls back to what works for your team without making you unsafe. I will elaborate on a few items later. Dry suits, full face masks, comms true alternate air like a pony are all similar. Technique single diver tethered sweep patterns with a safety diver and contingency bottle and a 90% diver are all very similar. Hazard assessment and Risk vs. Benefit critical thinking techniques are also similar.

One of the biggest differences and the one that has caused our team so much difficulty are the line signals. DRI has four signals and LGS has many more. For our team and the environment in which we work in the DRI signals are simpler, easier to remember, easier to instruct a new tender in and better suited IMHO. The LGS signals are more suited for evidence recovery and on a team like a LEA team that is paid and has more regular contact with its members. On my team month to month I am not sure who I will be diving with. We have a core group of people but there are others that show up at irregular intervals. This is even more so on actual emergencies because it brings many people out of the woodwork. Now our team commanders will absolutely keep people out of the operation if they are not a regular participant with the team so we do have a measure of control. The other problem is that our team has a fairly even mix of LGS/DRI trained personnel and we have had a problem with the different signals. We have not gone to a hybrid which more closely mimics the DRI signals with a few of the LGS thrown in plus one of our own. We regularly train in boat towing operations which we feel is very effective for large area search where the visibility is good. We have several reservoirs where the water is very good and can get 8 to 10’ of visibility. We need a signal for slower or faster thus the hybrid.

The other issue was some of the positions on gear selection. I am not going to make this a discussion about what is better or not. I just want to present what I experienced from both classes and how it related to my dive team. Primarily BC and Integrated weights are the biggest. LGS is pretty adamant on vest style BC’s and non integrated weights and at the time or team was all Zeagle Rangers (rear inflation/integrated weights. Our DRI instructor took the approach that if your gear worked for your team and did not cause any additional risk or safety concern then it was acceptable. This type of flexibility was more suited to our volunteer dive team. Many of our members have to purchase their own gear and while we want to keep them safe we don’t want to price ourselves out of a job. Our team leaders want to work towards standardizations on key elements like pony bottles and full face masks with comms but still strike a balance between diver comfort and team unity.

I got into a personal debate with the LGS instructors over my fin selection. I am a die hard Force Fin guy mainly because I have a huge problem with my huge feet getting cramped in a closed foot pocket. Force Fins have completely eliminated any discomfort in my feet and legs and allow me to dive without being distracted by foot cramps. The LGS instructors favored a more traditional fin and argued that I lost too much force with my more flexible fins and could not swim as effectively with a victim in tow. Now I am not the greatest swimmer in the world but I am a strong swimmer and fell very confident in the water with my Force Fins. In the end we had to agree to disagree.

I know I have written a lot and in closing I just want to say that I am not telling you which agency you should go with. I am just pointing out how important it is to find the training that will best suit your team. Any PSD training is a plus whether you use DRI or LGS. (I am not familiar with any of the others so I cannot comment) Finding the training that best suits your team will make it even more productive.

Sorry for the long winded but I hope this helps. Good luck!!

Mark D.

 

[mndvr132]

Mack Diver
I couldn't agree more with the above post. I too have trained both with LGS and DRI and in my opinion Mark D. is right on. I only wish I could have written it so elegently.