Travel diving and being led around by "divemasters"

[Splitlip]

well...many believe divers should be self reliant. SUDS divers aside. I think you are misconstruing.

 

[Splitlip]

or over analyzing.

 

[Altamira]

I don't think I misconstrued or over analyzed anything. His comments were arrogant and offensive to the many divers that do now, or at some point in the future, need some level of assistance getting off or on the boat or getting in or out of gear. Hopefully you will never lose a limb or have some other physical ailment that makes it difficult or impossible to climb a ladder with your gear on. If given those circumstances, it would be interesting to see whether you would give up diving rather than ask for help and be less than 100% "self-reliant."

 

[flots am]

BANG,BANG,BANG manta! BANG,BANG,BANG humphead wrasse! BANG,BANG,BANG shark! All this banging drove me nuts. If I wanted to hear banging I'd go to a scrap-yard.
I'm introducing my grandchildren to diving and they did not seem to like the pace either. They are on their high school swim team and involved in other athletic activities, so it's about being physically fit.

So my question to posters is; Is this the way people like to dive? If so, I may have to find another activity.

I try to avoid dives that require divemasters, but when I get one, I explain that I'll be going really slow, might not actually move anywhere, and won't be chasing him, then I give him his tip up front.

So far, it's worked really well.

flots.

 

[p1p]

My solution has been private charters. Then the DM is merely there as a guide, when I want him to be one.

 

[dbulmer]

I don't think I misconstrued or over analyzed anything. His comments were arrogant and offensive to the many divers that do now, or at some point in the future, need some level of assistance getting off or on the boat or getting in or out of gear. Hopefully you will never lose a limb or have some other physical ailment that makes it difficult or impossible to climb a ladder with your gear on. If given those circumstances, it would be interesting to see whether you would give up diving rather than ask for help and be less than 100% "self-reliant."

I would guess that Dan Volker was referring to able bodied divers (not disabled divers) who lacked the physical fitness and skill to kit and de-kit.

Since we are all trained to do this in OW training I think you may have misinterpreted his post.

 

[danvolker]

For Dan Volker and anyone else that thinks like him.
With reference to his comment, quote "...we would get on the boat the way florida divers get on a boat, not the way lame tourists do ( where the crew has the lame and pathetic remove their bc's and fins in the water, and the crew hauls this up, then helps the pathetic up the ladders) ", I find these comments arrogant, insulting, immature, and childish.
I guess you "florida divers" are so special and fortunate that you do not have people that love to dive, but also have to deal with some physical issues that may require some assistance getting in and out of the water. Instead of shooting off your mouth about the lame and pathethic, maybe you should dive with, or spend time with some of our Wounded Warriors. Many of these soldiers have overcome tremendous physical challenges and have learned to dive, despite missing or mangled limbs lost protecting your right to be an arrogant ass. After watching what they can do, and the challenges they have overcome to dive, perhaps you will not be so quick to use words like lame and pathetic to describe people that need help to be able to dive. I would like to think a good diver should be proud to give whatever assistance possible to anyone that needs a little, or a lot of help to be able to dive and have a fun dive. But I guess you proved me wrong.

When I wrote the offending comment, I was remembering the tourists on the boat that were very average people, but that either wanted the help because they were "paying for it", or they had never been shown how to climb aboard a boat... Picture a spoiled, bad mannered, and uncoordinated TOURIST......in either case, this was pathetic to me.....my charicterization had nothing to do with people who had been injured and now needed help to dive, or people with special needs---these are an entirely different type of people....I am very sorry that I did not think about how what I wrote could be offensive to Wounded Warriors or others with the issues I just spoke of...the picture I had in my mind at the time had NOTHING to do with them.

 

[RTee]

Personally I do not like diving like that. However, I think that people sometimes are quick to find fault at others and not so good at introspection.

If you do not do your homework prior using a dive ops, then you should not expect them to mind read the kind of divers you are...nor should you expect them to adapt to you when their modus operandi is to do otherwise and then criticize them about their narrow-minded philosophy.
If you are not willing to pay for a private charter, then you should not subject the DM and the other divers to what you personally want to do especially if they advertise otherwise. As much as I prefer not using a DM, if I resort to using a dive op that make it SOP or compulsary, then I will abide by the briefing and directives as long as it is not unsafe for me and dive buddy to do so.
If they set a time limit for their dives, I will abide to that and come up when we get the signal to go up.... I could not care less how much air I have left at that point just like I could not care less about how much air you have left quite frankly. Briefing is given, the dive is done as per the plan, signal is given to go up...we all go up. As I said, if it is not what you wanted, you should not only be there but should have picked somebody who caters to your needs in the first place and if you don't...do not start behaving like the world evolves only around you and subject all the others providing and using the service to your fancies. Other people have also paid the same amount of money as you did.

Lessons learned...with all the technology available to us nowadays including internet, emails, etc...we should not be surprised about how a dive op do business unless they do something drasctically different to what they advertized or told you in writing. It also provides you with the opportunity to make certain requests and see if they or some will entertain them as well.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

If you do not do your homework prior using a dive ops, then you should not expect them to mind read the kind of divers you are...nor should you expect them to adapt to you when their modus operandi is to do otherwise and then criticize them about their narrow-minded philosophy.
If you are not willing to pay for a private charter, then you should not subject the DM and the other divers to what you personally want to do especially if they advertise otherwise. As much as I prefer not using a DM, if I resort to using a dive op that make it SOP or compulsary, then I will abide by the briefing and directives as long as it is not unsafe for me and dive buddy to do so.
If they set a time limit for their dives, I will abide to that and come up when we get the signal to go up.... I could not care less how much air I have left at that point just like I could not care less about how much air you have left quite frankly. Briefing is given, the dive is done as per the plan, signal is given to go up...we all go up. As I said, if it is not what you wanted, you should not only (not) be there but (you) should have picked somebody who caters to your needs in the first place and if you don't...do not start behaving like the world evolves only around you and subject all the others providing and using the service to your fancies. Other people have also paid the same amount of money as you did.

If only there were some kind of SB "speed dial" of best of the best answers for subjects that come up over and over. I would put this answer as "speed dial #1" for the guided diving whining threads!

 

[Tigerman]

I frequently "lose" the guide. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes it just happens (Because Im busy looking at something) and I couldnt care less. The guides are not the scuba police and fortunately the guides I dive with mostly know theire not.
Ive lost the guides on 100ft wrecks (The Thistlegorm to name one and the current there can be pretty significant) and Ive lost them on calm, sheltered reefs. It dont disturb me in the least as long as I have a buddy thats cool with it.

And to answer your question; NO I dont like the "marathon diving" the least bit. The guides are just that, guides. I pay them to be the guides and I pay them the same wether I surface with them or without them. As long as they give a proper brief and make a row call before the boat leave there should be no issue whatsoever with going off with your buddy.

HOWEVER having seen a few asian resort-divers and seriously NONE of them being decent divers I can see how the guides want to cattle-herd the guests in areas where theres many of them..