Treat every dive like a tech dive

[Eric Sedletzky]

"Plan your dive, dive your plan "
"Know your limits, dive within your limits and training"
"Check your gear"
"Check your air/gas"
"Watch your gauges "
Etc etc etc

That's should be all regular diving, not just tech diving.

 

[Storker]

First, the free-flow is often caused by a first-stage problem, thus affects both second stages.

IME that's not the case. I've never seen a freeflow in the summer, but in the winter we really have to be prepared for them. I've seen or experienced around a dozen of them. It's always the 2nd, always on the surface or really shallow and it's caused by frost inside the reg. We have a few tricks to minimize the risk for that.

But then you don't see unsealed 1st stages around here, air quality is good and most people have their regs serviced regularly.

 

[NAM001]

Cuzza, most new divers do not have any where near a working knowledge of the skills to dive. It takes continual work to improve them. As for the last point you made, I have overcame that issue by diving with H valves on my singles. Its not for everybody but it works for me. Skills slowly develope. Each dive i make i work on some skill. advanced finning takes a lot of my time. I have not got it down as yet like John has. other times its buoyancy. each time i do a buoyancy check when the tank is low and log changes. suits change over time, you need to keep up with it. After a while things become second nature. That is not only usefull for your self but for your buddy. You will know the consequences of his changes when your buddy does not, and you are prepared for it should it prove accurate. I can see by your post the thought you are giving it and evaluating the various cause and effects. That is good. That is progressing towards more advanced diving skills.

I understand that. But a rec diver is typically never taught to carry a spare mask.




Good points. Yes, Proper weighting is in the text and dvd, but it's not really expanded on during the actual diving. I understand there's a time issue though. For me, I'm still trying to dial in my weight on each dive. Switching to steel tanks and colder water hasn't helped. It's been a bit frustrating.



I meant more in a situation were you had a wing/bladder failure. Oral inflator's not going to help. Again I guess that goes back to weighting.



Totally makes sense for a tech diver. They have those options. But for the typical rec diver their only option before their tank is drained is to get to their buddy and air share or CESA to the surface while sipping air. If for whatever reason those two options aren't immediately possible I could switch to my octo and crimp the primary and I'm not losing any air. This could be especially important at the end of a dive when every cubic foot is important. I know CESA is always an option, but does anyone really want to do that in that situation when just crimping the hose will fix the problem. This isn't taught in OW.

 

[Edward3c]

… But for the typical rec diver their only option before their tank is drained is to get to their buddy and air share or CESA to the surface while sipping air. If for whatever reason those two options aren't immediately possible I could switch to my octo and crimp the primary and I'm not losing any air. This could be especially important at the end of a dive when every cubic foot is important. I know CESA is always an option, but does anyone really want to do that in that situation when just crimping the hose will fix the problem. This isn't taught in OW.

Have you tried to crimp your hose to stop the gas flow? You’ll need to buy a new one after as it will be ruined.

Reg failures are rare, out of gas is unfortunately not, the most common reason for not being able to breath your own gas is ‘there isn’t any’; because it wasn’t being monitored.

 

[CuzzA]

Although i can empathize with your opinion , the reality is that too many with minimal OW training are set up for failure from the start. Yes it should be fun but not at the expense of your self, others or the environment. Too many have little to no regard for those aspects. 2-3 days of classroom and water time does not make a diver. OW teaches you the basics for you to build upon. If you don't build on the basics you are more a liability than an asset. Ow teaches you to survive in 60 ft and less while you learn to master skills you were taught and become comfortable. The difference between hobby and tourist? Probably if you dive twice a year on vacation or dive more regularly at home. OW does not have to be a book camp or should it be one. It does need to get the point across to the new diver that they are not masters of all waters. they have limitations and no experience. limitations they understand but ignore. Accepting inexperience unless taught with what can be done means nothing. Get that instructor in the water and have them demonstrate what a trained diver can do and students can start to realize how much there is still to learn and that they are not invincable.

Great points! I recognize a boot camp style wouldn't be for everyone. In fact, that's probably bad terminology. IMO, the basic open water class should be tougher. The way I understand it is it's designed for nearly everyone to pass. When in reality not everyone should.

Your point about the environment is a great one and hits home with me. One of my hobbies is reef tanks. I've grown a sps coral literally from a single polyp to a full colony over a couple years in my living room; to the point I have had to frag that coral many times and distribute it to others. It's a pretty rewarding feeling. To watch videos of divers busting up the natural reef makes me sick. Why are they doing this? For one, I don't think they understand how a reef works and the amount of time it takes for a coral to grow. People typically don't care about what they don't understand. Hell, they probably don't even realize it when they're doing it. And second, it's their attitude toward diving. They get certified and have just enough knowledge to not kill themselves and that's where it ends for some of them. Meanwhile, they should be trying to progess their skills not only to make them a safer diver, but so they aren't destroying life that took years to grow. You don't need to be a technical diver to develop enough skill to not kill life just by participating in a sport. You just need the dedication to try and be better. One of the biggest things I'm working on is buoyancy control. I've got my trim and depth control down pretty good and now I'm working on using my lungs to control my buoyancy. I imagine if I can perfect that and make quick changes to my profile that could mean the difference of busting up a 50 year coral to avoiding it.

Cuzza, most new divers do not have any where near a working knowledge of the skills to dive. It takes continual work to improve them. As for the last point you made, I have overcame that issue by diving with H valves on my singles. Its not for everybody but it works for me. Skills slowly develope. Each dive i make i work on some skill. advanced finning takes a lot of my time. I have not got it down as yet like John has. other times its buoyancy. each time i do a buoyancy check when the tank is low and log changes. suits change over time, you need to keep up with it. After a while things become second nature. That is not only usefull for your self but for your buddy. You will know the consequences of his changes when your buddy does not, and you are prepared for it should it prove accurate. I can see by your post the thought you are giving it and evaluating the various cause and effects. That is good. That is progressing towards more advanced diving skills.

I agree. The only way to get better is to keep diving for fun and at the same time work on your skills. I really love this sport. Growing up in Florida it has always been something I wanted to do. For years I'd drive by dive shops or see divers out in the Gulf and always say, "Man, I need to get certified." I had been in dive shops a bunch of times, but one day I finally had enough of putting it off. I knew the only way I was going to do it was to actually make the deposit on my OW class. And so I did it. Now it's becoming a way of life, living in Florda definitely helps, and so I'm taking it serious and want to be a really good diver.

On second thought about my "experience" argument maybe my I'm somewhat wrong. Or I should have clarified that experience and diving really doesn't make you a better/safer diver. Experience and commitment to be better does.

Have you tried to crimp your hose to stop the gas flow? You’ll need to buy a new one after as it will be ruined.

Reg failures are rare

Yes, I tested this and crimping a rubber hose completely cuts off air supply. Not sure what you're saying I ruined? The reg or the hose? Why would I need to buy a new one?

I've dived my rig nearly a dozen times (3 dives to 100 ft) after I tested that and there is no difference.

I do not use and likely never will use braided hoses. Do a quick google search and you'll see why. IMO, rubber hoses are superior because the external wear on them is likely a good indicator of how safe the hose is or how much life remains on them. There's no way to do that with braid.

As far as "reg failures being rare", I'm sure they are. But why does nearly everyone dive with a backup? Because, aside from air sharing it does happen. Look at it this way, I'm sure primary parachute deployment failure is rare, but when sky diving are you going to jump out of a plane with out a back up chute? Nope, you're going to have that contingency. In the absence of a completely seperate redundent air supply I'd like to know I have the knowledge(contingency) how to stop a catastrophic loss of air.

I was at my LDS one day having a tank that was given to me VIPed (Tank was still current with hydro and vip) and I wanted to watch the process. So I basically did it with them. I was quite shocked to see the little spec of calcium carbonate attached to the inside of the tank. I asked what was the danger in that. Their reply, "It could come loose and cause a catastrophic failure of your first or second stage or even worse, your lungs." Needless to say that tank was cleaned.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Calcium carbonate in the tank... what was the tank made from? Aluminum?

Also, you have been beaten down with the idea that training is going to be the "magic" ticket to learning to dive. Good training is great (I'm sure), but I have seen a lot of poorly skilled tech divers over the years.

If your goal is to spearfish, then I would suggest you find some good spearfishermen to mentor you. Try to follow exactly what they do (if you are comfortable doing it) and then after 10-20 trips, maybe make a few changes or experiment if you must.

Some of these divers have developed configurations and systems and techniques that have been perfected over hundreds or thousands of dives. They may do things for reasons they don't even remember, but they work and you don't find out the drawbacks of changing them, until you make the change and a problem or conflict or complication arises. This is why I suggest finding some really good mentor(s) and trying to follow what they do for a good while - before you try to re-invent the wheel, stick weight pockets all over your harness etc.

If you desire to take technical training so you can spearfish in deep water.... I would wait. Wait until you have had a few hundred spearing dives at recreational limits, before you even think about trying it in deep water.

Also, all this stuff about needing formal certifications to learn - I'm not so sure I agree with all of that, but I have to admit, I have made numerous attempts to teach myself back kicking and it is always a complete failure :depressed:

 

[CuzzA]

The tank was a AL80. I assume this was from saltwater rich air getting into the tank. Probably from fills very close to shore with poor or spent compressor filters.

Totally agree DD. For spearfishing that's definitely been the advice I've recieved from many. I have a lot of work to do before I'll be prepared to do that kind of activity at that depth and safely make it back to the surface. Deep wrecks are another technical dive that interest me.

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself, but I enjoy hearing stories about dives. Anybody following this thread have any stories to share about deep technical wrecks? Like the Lowrance for example.

I haven't even attempted a back kick. Haven't even researched how to do it yet.

 

[Storker]

I haven't even attempted a back kick. Haven't even researched how to do it yet.

Stage 1: Ditch the splits
Stage 2: Buy paddles
Stage 3: Get an instructor or a mentor to help you get started
Stage 4: Train, train, train. And train.

 

[tomfcrist]

Stage 5: slow is smooth, smooth is sexy

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I read most but not all the threads. I'm a basic recreational diver. I do have AOW training and that's it so far. I have no desire to dive cave, penetrate wrecks, or deeper than 90 feet. I don't care about double tanks, trimix gases, decompression calculations, or needing a long hose to air share single file. To say I'm less safe because I don't plan a recreational dive like a tech dive is somewhat condescending. I know my basic dive tables, know that with regular air in a single AL 80 tank at 60-70 feet max depth if I keep my bottom time under 50-60 minutes it's within NDL guidelines. I have a primary and an Atomic SS1 as my second. For me if I share air dive is over. You surface immediately with your buddy. The key is to watch your gauges and monitor gas so you don't have an out of air or low on air situation. Basic dive principles taught in OW. Let's not over think the issue. You don't need a "tech" mindset, you just need a "safety" mindset.

I can think of a few scenarios where your configuration and approach may not be optimum. Here is one:

Lets say that you and I are diving to a depth of 100 feet with no overhead. I run out of gas and we have to do an air-share. That Atomic SS1 that you carry instead of a standard octo or a duplicate second stage will be very confusing for me. In my open water training I was trained to breath from an "octo" and in my tech class I am trained to breath from a 7 foot hose. Never in my life during any of my training have I been trained to breath from anyone's inflator hose which is also being doubled as an emergency airsource. Various questions come to my mind as I look at divers with that device. First is, if your BCD inflator is the same as your octo then they cant perform both functions at the same time. How do you use for its primary purpose (venting and inflating your BCD) when it is going into my mouth? Do you honestly believe that I will let you pull it out of my mouth so that you can inflate or vent from it? In the end, how hard is it to buy a normal second stage and hang it with you for the moment when I am about to die?