Trust Me Dives

[drbill]

As a long-time solo diver, I generally consider all my dives as trust ME. When I dive with a buddy, I assume a certain amount of trust in them should something unexpected occur. I realize that doesn't any standard definition but I think each dive assumes a level of trust.

 

[Dizzi Lizzi]

Being a fairly new to intermediate diver my self defining a “trust me” dive is a big concept. It varies with the situation.
But in general, for myself, a trust me dive is where you are unprepared, unskilled, uneducated and dependent on the other person. I can easily say I am not a very trusting person.

There are however times when I trust another person’s judgment, for example: We were on a boat dive with our instructor ( not in official capacity) and the site was a cavern at 74 ft. While I was thinking to myself “out of my range and overhead...drat!!” He quietly said “ I know this site, you (buddy and I) are ok to do this with us if you want”. We made a plan including potential hazards, and what to do if we changed our mind when we got there. I don’t really consider that a trust me dive as he knew our skill level and the site. But did I trust his judgment of our skills?…Yes. Did I trust our dive plan was safe? Yes. I went in about 15 feet, signaled him I did not want to go in deeper (flashlight seemed pretty puny!) and he escorted us right out, even though the huge entrance was gaping just behind us. My buddy and I had a good time at 60ish feet watching the bubbles come out of the roof of the cavern while others were inside.

I don’t see a training dive as a “trust me dive”, as you have done some above the water work and should be prepared for your dive, and have a plan to deal with any possible contingencies. Your instructor is part of the plan!

 

[Bogtrotter]

I have generally thought it to mean any dive where someone is on a site that involves an environment they unfamiliar with and their buddy or dive leader is.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Interesting thread. It reminds me of something that happened in high school. Someone spilled the mercury on the floor .... ever try to pick up mercury? Getting an agreement on the definition of what constitutes a "Trust me Dive" is like trying to pick up mercury ... or herd cats

I agree with @drbill, @northernone and @Steve_C any dive where you are trusting information given to you by someone else is a "Trust Me Dive". You may be trusting them to be able to judge your ability to cope with the conditions as in a Training dive. You may be trusting their judgement of the conditions of the site based on their experience with currents and tides. You may be trusting them to navigate to the pick up oint in unfamiliar terrain. Non of that necessarily implies that you are needing them to save your life. You are trusting them to provide you with the necessary information to make your decision to splash or not.

I am uncomfortable with the concept of hiring a DM I don't know to guide me on a specific dive because I am not competent to do the dive as a normal diver. Without the knowledge of that person's actual skill and experience it is the ultimate Trust me Dive! I remember reading a few incidents where that situation ended in tragedy!

 

[TMHeimer]

The PADI definition seems as good as any. It's all about risk/logic, etc. and what is a trust me dive and what isn't. I hadn't heard the term before joining SB. Anyone know how it originated?

 

[DogDiver]

The PADI definition seems as good as any. It's all about risk/logic, etc. and what is a trust me dive and what isn't. I hadn't heard the term before joining SB. Anyone know how it originated?

Originally started with cave diving where the consiquances could be fatal.

 

[HantsDiver]

A “trust me” dive is a dive in which one diver relies on another to complete the dive safely. Tec divers avoid them because on a “trust me” dive, you dive using your “back up brain” only — your brain isn’t up to the dive. On a “trust me” dive, separation from the leading diver may make it impossible to complete the dive safely.

You should ask yourself whether you would be capable of finishing a planned dive entirely on your own from any point in a dive, or in an emergency, be reasonably able to assist a team mate from any point in the dive. If you can’t say “yes,” then you’re not ready for the dive.

So basically any dive which could involve a team bail out - which is what pretty much all the most advanced rebreather divers in the world do.

Or any technical dive I do. If I lose a deco gas - my only way of completing the dive safely is to share with a friendly diver in the water and follow some basic rules.

I trust the people I do those dives with. And I'm very happy to continue doing my "trust me" dives. I'm not a cave diver - but if I were I'd definitely need those to be trust me dives as well.

However - I'm pretty sure the people who use this sort of phrase wouldn't describe their own technical diving in this way. Dives which are ridiculous - are not trust me dives. They are stupid dives.

 

[Lorenzoid]

One of the more common themes on ScubaBoard is "though shalt not do trust me dives." Perhaps some perspective is needed. First off I am not saying that one should go deep into a cave with no cave experience or other dives that are way outside your training. Nor that you should do something just to go along even though you feel very uncomfortable. However, I will note that

-Most of our life activities are done on a trust me basis. I trust the pilots and mechanics and air traffic controllers, etc when I fly. I trust cab and bus drivers. The accident and injury rate in hospitals is probably much higher than in the recreational dive industry. I do not trust completely medical stays though I do have to trust the surgeon and the pharmacy to mix stuff right.

-The vast majority of recreational tourist centered diving is trust me diving from trusting the guide, to trusting the captain, to trusting the instructor, to the shop that maintains equipment and pumps air. And the accident rate is very low and most people very happy.

-By the time you get your OW you have done at least 4 dives and they were all trust me dives.

-The good advice, that I have given many times, is to hire a private DM for a new dive situation. In essence you are converting a dive to a trust me dive if you are doing it for safety reasons rather than just because you do not like group dives which is why I do it now.

-Over time, if one is open to learning, you will build your skills and knowledge so that your trust is more based on your own experience and skills and less on that of the diver you are with.

-Always temper that trust with what knowledge and comfort you have with the situation and your own skills. You can thumb at any time and ultimately you are responsible for your own safety and happiness. Have fun.

I agree that "perspective" is the key to dealing with the "trust-me dive" issue.

In our everyday lives we place our trust in all kinds of people to help keep us safe. But it's not black and white. How we mitigate risk depends on the severity of the potential consequences and the extent to which we, the consumer of the services, understand what the risks are. For some things, like taking a taxi ride, we have a very good understanding of what the risks are and what kind of skill is needed to safely drive the taxi while we sit passively in back. So, nobody questions whether this is a "trust-me taxi ride." For other things, like surgery, the consequences are potentially grave, we have a poorer understanding of the risks and what is needed to do it safely, so we place a great deal of trust in medical personnel, equipment, facilities, etc. Another example is air travel, as you pointed out. However, society deals with our deficiencies by imposing a rigid framework that governs all those resources. In the early days of air travel, where people had to blindly place trust in the pilot and the plane in each instance, there were a lot of crashes.

So in thinking about trust in the diving context, I would consider the severity of the potential consequences, whether we understand all the risks involved (and whether all the risks involved are even knowable), who it is we are relying on, and what they can and can not be expected to do. There is a lot of uncertainty in diving. The "trust-me" dive that we speak of is usually a dive where we are led by a divemaster or guide, where the diver isn't aware of some significant aspects of the dive or their implications and therefore doesn't--and perhaps can't--have a good grasp of the risks and how they would or would not be mitigated. If it's a kind of dive we haven't had training and experience in, then we generally don't know what we don't know. We don't know what questions to ask. There is no real framework in place to help us consumers of dive services deal with our deficiencies, or at least the framework (a trained DM, standard dive gear, etc.) is not satisfactory to deal with the risks in view of the severity of the potential consequences. That's when we have not just a dive in which we place some trust in someone else but what we condemn as a "trust-me dive."

 

[DevonDiver]

So basically any dive which could involve a team bail out ... Or any technical dive I do. If I lose a deco gas - my only way of completing the dive safely is to share with a friendly diver

The team bailout issue is legitimate, but a long way beyond the issue of trust me dives.

Not so sure why the tech dives you do aren't self-sufficient. I'll normally gas plan to make sure I've got as many options as feasible.

Gas resources is a different issue to dive competency... which is what 'trust me' dives predominantly cover.

Most recreational divers don't have any gas "bailout" beyond gas-share from a buddy.. but that doesn't make those dives 'trust me'.

Situation gets a little different in overhead and decompression diving though..

Nonetheless, if you have the requisite competencies... and apply your skills.. you should have a very high degree of confidence you'd survive the dive. That's the crux of it..