Uncertified Scoundrels Teaching the Public to Dive in Libya

[BoltSnap]

We shall have to agree to disagree.

Makes life very interesting and educational indeed

 

[kelemvor]

This might be an opportunity for you to engage in lobbying for some regulations on the matter. I have no idea how politics in Libya work, but that's the only way I could dream up for you to "solve" your problem

 

[Bob DBF]

How is it different from a person claiming to be a physician and practicing medicine without proper education and license or practicing law or accounting or any other profession??

Although I agree with your basic premise that these fake instructors should be stopped, and punished, you are going a bit over the top comparing them to MDs. Perhaps, giving your premiss a go, if the government and educational system got togather and set the bar, we could have BS in Scuba Diving prerequisite for DM, Masters for instructor, and Ph.D. For course director, and specific government licenses for each and all levels of certification.

Scuba instructors are proffessional in the same way anyone who takes money for doing a job is a proffessional. Some may act as true professionals, but it is not required by law.


Bob

 

[BoltSnap]

Although I agree with your basic premise that these fake instructors should be stopped, and punished, you are going a bit over the top comparing them to MDs. Perhaps, giving your premiss a go, if the government and educational system got togather and set the bar, we could have BS in Scuba Diving prerequisite for DM, Masters for instructor, and Ph.D. For course director, and specific government licenses for each and all levels of certification.

Scuba instructors are proffessional in the same way anyone who takes money for doing a job is a proffessional. Some may act as true professionals, but it is not required by law.


Bob

I am not really comparing them to MD's in terms of how valuable or intricate what they do, I am comparing the licensing and monitoring part. In the US, NY City especially, Plumbers, electricians and carpenters are licensed and regulated with violators either jailed or heavily fined and are also subject to civil litigation. I am saying that Plumbers, electricians or carpenters are equal to medical doctors or scuba instructors, I am merely stating that when the public good calls for proper credentials for any type of vocation/trade/profession, it will include scuba instructors. Improper scuba instructions can cause very serious and devastating injuries as is happening around me in Libya now. A couple of years ago a person came to me wanting to take an entry level scuba course with me after he took a "course" with one of the local charlatans and suffered ear injury while learning to free dive. As it turns out his injury was so severe, he can't dive for the rest of his life according to a specialist doctor. The fake instructor in this case was and still is running a big "diver training" program (free and scuba diving) and promoting himself as a "scuba instructor" when he isn't even a certified diver at any level. He dosen't even understand deco theory or knows dive tables.

 

[KeithG]

I am not really comparing them to MD's in terms of how valuable or intricate what they do, I am comparing the licensing and monitoring part. In the US, NY City especially, Plumbers, electricians and carpenters are licensed and regulated with violators either jailed or heavily fined and are also subject to civil litigation. I am saying that Plumbers, electricians or carpenters are equal to medical doctors or scuba instructors, I am merely stating that when the public good calls for proper credentials for any type of vocation/trade/profession, it will include scuba instructors. Improper scuba instructions can cause very serious and devastating injuries as is happening around me in Libya now. A couple of years ago a person came to me wanting to take an entry level scuba course with me after he took a "course" with one of the local charlatans and suffered ear injury while learning to free dive. As it turns out his injury was so severe, he can't dive for the rest of his life according to a specialist doctor. The fake instructor in this case was and still is running a big "diver training" program (free and scuba diving) and promoting himself as a "scuba instructor" when he isn't even a certified diver at any level. He dosen't even understand deco theory or knows dive tables.

Your plumber analogy also fails. There are legal building codes that tradesmen must adhere too.

Scuba is not special. It is like frisbee tossing or golf.

 

[Bob DBF]

?..l am comparing the licensing and monitoring part.

At that point, the government has to take enough interest to codify the entire industry into law and set regulations. At least in this country, there is not enough money to be made by government, or harm being done, for our government to get involved. I imagine your country's government has plenty to do without getting involved in a marginal industry.


I wish you luck

Bob

 

[BoltSnap]

Scuba is not special. It is like frisbee tossing or golf.

I doubt very much that there is as much as legal responsibilities in Frisbee tossing or golf as there is teaching scuba diving. You are all OK until one gets injured or dies and then you are responsible and held to standards.

At that point, the government has to take enough interest to codify the entire industry into law and set regulations. At least in this country, there is not enough money to be made by government, or harm being done, for our government to get involved. I imagine your country's government has plenty to do without getting involved in a marginal industry.


I wish you luck

Bob

You are talking from a US perspective only. The civil court system has kept the dive industry in checkmore or less.

 

[Nirvana]

Several people are arguing that the lack of regulation by a government body is enough to make it an acceptable or, at least, legal practice to teach scuba without being an instructor accredited by a major diving organization. That is only true as long as the prospective student is made aware of the fact that distinction between formal (disciplined by PADI, NAUI, BSAC etc.) and informal instruction.

Apart from the content of classes themselves, a diver that is taught by an "independent agent" may acquire the essential skills and knowledge to dive safely. However, when it comes down to actually getting to dive somewhere, the absence of a widely recognized c-card will severely impact where and how someone may get to dive. Even if the instructor was not actually purposefully misleading customers into thinking he was a "regular" (accredited by international agencies) instructor, but simply failed to mention the distinction, would be, in my eyes, a sanctionable breach of legal obligation - certainly in Brazilian law, and I suspect the same would be true in many other countries.

This comes from the fact that ensuring the person with which you are making a contract understands its essential points, particularly those points that are likely to impact the decision of whether or not to accept the contract, is obligatory. In the case of dive instruction, not being certified by an international agency would impede the diver from, say, traveling to Egypt and using the services of a local dive shop.

It is, then, a matter of not selling service A as if you were selling service B.

 

[KeithG]

I doubt very much that there is as much as legal responsibilities in Frisbee tossing or golf as there is teaching scuba diving. You are all OK until one gets injured or dies and then you are responsible and held to standards.

And that IS my point. Unlike doctors, lawyers and plumbers, scuba has no legal standards (at least in the parts of the world I dive). Just like golf and frisbee tossing and curling.

Scuba is not special. Scuba instructors are not special.

 

[Tom Winters]

Wrong...scuba instructors ARE special.
Divemasters are NOT special.