Use of hands when diving.

[Quero]

swimming along horizontal, meet an obstruction, rise a couple of feet, continue swimming.
This may seem odd to a tropical diver but in low vis I am often pasted to the floor, frogkicking and only able to see 4-5' ahead of me.
In this situation one can either use breath control to rise (which I do), go vertical or remain horizontal and use a modified backkick to try to rise. I sometimes do a scull outwards which lifts my head and chest and follow it with a forwards kick to return to horizontal but a couple of feet higher, or just strategically push up and off.

That's what I figured. As it happens, I do sometimes want to rise while in horizontal trim, even in the tropics (for example, to come up out of a swim through in a boulder field). I stop forward motion (with fins), take a deep breath in, and when I begin to rise, breathe slowly out to control the ascent. No hands. I find using the hands when doing this gets divers all out of trim since the hand movements pivot from the shoulder.

 

[dbulmer]

Have not read the whole thread but generally I don't use my hands except for 2 situations.
On a wreck in current I will pull and glide with my hands taking buddy position into account. (this depends on the wreck and is what I do in local waters I suppose it's the poor man's scooter )

In very low vis I extend one hand in front to act as a feeler (a bit like using a compass) - normally I'd do this when silt has been kicked up at an inland site and I don't do this on sea dives.

 

[AfterDark]

DaleC, I'm trying to figure this out--do you mean rise vertically in the water column? Or maybe rise in the water column while maintaining horizontal trim?

Do you do this a often? I recall you did the same to me a few posts ago, leaving words out to change the meaning of a sentence. The original statement was: What kick do you use to rise while remaining horizontal in the water column? I would say it means: rise in the water column while maintaining horizontal trim. Seems to me if the bc is used not much fin action is needed anyway. I like to swim vertically so I can look up and do 360’s while I rise.

 

[Quero]

Do you do this a often? I recall you did the same to me a few posts ago, leaving words out to change the meaning of a sentence. The original statement was: What kick do you use to rise while remaining horizontal in the water column? I would say it means: rise in the water column while maintaining horizontal trim. Seems to me if the bc is used not much fin action is needed anyway. I like to swim vertically so I can look up and do 360’s while I rise.

Actually AfterDark, I quoted DaleC accurately. He later went back to edit his post after I asked for clarification. And in answer to your question, yes, I do often ask for clarification because it's sometimes possible to misinterpret what people mean to say. This process is called "negotiation of meaning" and is a common strategy amongst people participating in a conversation. You seem to think it's antagonistic, but it's not--it's just part of the back-and-forth of normal discourse.

For example, I'm tempted to ask you what you mean when you say:

Seems to me if the bc is used not much fin action is needed anyway.

But never mind. It doesn't matter. You may mistakenly think I'm challenging you and come back at me again with irritation, so I won't ask.

 

[AfterDark]

Actually AfterDark, I quoted DaleC accurately. He later went back to edit his post after I asked for clarification. And in answer to your question, yes, I do often ask for clarification because it's sometimes possible to misinterpret what people mean to say. This process is called "negotiation of meaning" and is a common strategy amongst people participating in a conversation. You seem to think it's antagonistic, but it's not--it's just part of the back-and-forth of normal discourse.

For example, I'm tempted to ask you what you mean when you say:
But never mind. It doesn't matter. You may mistakenly think I'm challenging you and come back at me again with irritation, so I won't ask.

Sorry my mistake.

Alone that sentence doesn’t mean much. But reading the paragraph from which it was taken I think it’s clear that it means if the bc is used to rise not much fin action is needed since the bc would do the work of bringing one to the surface. You didn’t get that from the context of the paragraph? Well again sorry. I’m a lot better diver then writer.

 

[Quero]

Sorry my mistake.

Apology accepted.

Alone that sentence doesn’t mean much. But reading the paragraph from which it was taken I think it’s clear that it means if the bc is used to rise not much fin action is needed since the bc would do the work of bringing one to the surface. You didn’t get that from the context of the paragraph?

Well, yes, I did wonder if that was what you meant, and the reason I wondered is that I don't use my BC as an elevator, so in fact it does not do the work of taking me over obstacles or to the surface. I certainly wouldn't pump air into my BC to become positively buoyant while underwater except perhaps in the most dire emergency, and furthermore I teach my students not to use the BC to effect depth changes. For this reason, I was surprised to read your sentence, and I wondered whether I was mis-interpreting it.

 

[AfterDark]

Apology accepted.


Well, yes, I did wonder if that was what you meant, and the reason I wondered is that I don't use my BC as an elevator, so in fact it does not do the work of taking me over obstacles or to the surface. I certainly wouldn't pump air into my BC to become positively buoyant while underwater except perhaps in the most dire emergency, and furthermore I teach my students not to use the BC to effect depth changes. For this reason, I was surprised to read your sentence, and I wondered whether I was mis-interpreting it.

This was why I added how I surface. There are some people that do use their bc’s for that purpose. Since my diving experience per-dates bc’s I have gotten into the habit over the decades of fining to the surface

 

[DaleC]

Sorry for the confusion. I did change that sentence retroactively as Quero stated as I saw that the original form did not make sense.

 

[Quero]

Sorry for the confusion. I did change that sentence retroactively as Quero stated as I saw that the original form did not make sense.

Not an issue at all, Dale! I read your post, had a question, asked the question, you answered, I understood. Problem solved! That's the way a conversation goes!

 

[DevonDiver]

Ok so do fish have only tail fins? And is that all they use? NO and what about seals, frogs, whales etc...

I have four appendages that function and serve me well above water and underwater in different ways and circumstances. Moving in a straight line my legs work great but for directional changes or positioning underwater nothing beats the hands.
But if you want to use only your legs thats ok too.

Do fish, seals, frogs or whales use cameras? Or lay line? Or care about stiring up silt? It's great that you have a personal dive style and are happy with it... but... it's an incorrect to state that "nothing beats the hands". I can turn 360 degrees with the flick of my ankle. I can move backwards with a slight movement from my knees. I can do these things whilst clearing my mask, or taking a photo, or laying a line.... In my mind, that 'beats' using my hands.