Use of hands when diving.

[AfterDark]

Do fish, seals, frogs or whales use cameras? Or lay line? Or care about stiring up silt? It's great that you have a personal dive style and are happy with it... but... it's an incorrect to state that "nothing beats the hands". I can turn 360 degrees with the flick of my ankle. I can move backwards with a slight movement from my knees. I can do these things whilst clearing my mask, or taking a photo, or laying a line.... In my mind, that 'beats' using my hands.

That's great. I can do all that too and have been for decades maybe even before you were born.. Heck I even did those some of things without a BC, back when you carried rocks in a bag to start off so you wouldn’t be too negative at depth but could still get there. It help develop navigation skills too getting back to the bag of rocks so you wouldn’t rush to surface during the ascent. I still maintain there are times when using a hand for a minor movement is more convenient. Or when I’m very close to a silt bottom and using fins may stir things up. We don’t all dive in tropical clear waters. A good day in RI is 10’ vis a super day is 30’ vis. An avg day is something less than 10’ vis.
I have been silted out by a arms crossed no hands frog kicker because they were so close to the bottom..

I just think there is way too much emphasis and importance attached to not using hands.
Maybe I should get someone to video my style of hand use. It really is quite gracefully.
Then I could start my own cult!

 

[elmer fudd]

I have no problem at all doing helicopter turns, but my back kick completely sucks. I keep practicing though, since I really do want to learn it. As part of that, I was watching youtube videos the other day and observing other peoples techniques. These were mostly tech/DIR training videos, so presumably the people in them knew their stuff pretty well. One thing that dawned on me while watching them though is there is no argument whatsoever that can be made for the back kick being efficient. It requires large muscle movements and results in very little rearward propulsion.

Now that doesn't mean to me that there's anything wrong with the back kick. If your hands are being used it's still the best way to back up a few feet. It does make me question the 'no hands ever" approach to diving however. I strongly suspect that the people in those videos would have been faster and more efficient in their backwards movement had they been using their hands instead.

 

[TSandM]

I think you would be surprised. I can't move myself very fast or against very much water movement with my hands. Even though the back kick is not efficient (and I don't think anyone would argue that it is) it's still better than using my rather small palms. On the other hand, in still water, I can turn around and watch students, and back kick as fast as they are moving forward.

 

[tomfcrist]

I think the question that the OP has been answered many times over, and by both sides of the fence.
An able bodied diver shouldnt need to use thier hands to finn while diving, as that is implying that they are not nuetral, or are fighting thier gear. That being said, i have taught divers that have no legs to dive using thier hands as fins(with swim gloves of course). Its all really reletive to the divers abilitys.

 

[DevonDiver]

I just think there is way too much emphasis and importance attached to not using hands.
Maybe I should get someone to video my style of hand use. It really is quite gracefully.
Then I could start my own cult!

You could also add some videos demonstrating the use of the hands for walking, or using your feet to dice carrots....

It's your right to champion whatever techniques you like. It doesn't make them the best option though.

 

[Teamcasa]

...It's your right to champion whatever techniques you like. It doesn't make them the best option though.

It also does not make it the worst option either.
Sheesh, Let's bottom line this issue.

Hands are not as efficient as a foot with a fin attached. (Read, you will use less air.)
Using your hands is not evil. Using your hands to make minor adjustments is not a sin. (But you may end up using a breath or two more air.)
Using your hands may be the best option in some cases.
Not using your hands to propel you would be the preferred method and you will get to look like on of the cool kids.

 

[elmer fudd]

I think you would be surprised. I can't move myself very fast or against very much water movement with my hands. Even though the back kick is not efficient (and I don't think anyone would argue that it is) it's still better than using my rather small palms. On the other hand, in still water, I can turn around and watch students, and back kick as fast as they are moving forward.

I don't think anyone really swims backward for more than maybe 10' or so do they? In my own experience it's usually much less than that. Maybe a matter of moving a few feet further away from something or backing back out of a crevice or hole you were peering in. So whether it's a matter of using your hands or your fins, I don't really think efficiency plays much of a role. I can still see the desirability of knowing how to do a back kick though, either because your hands are occupied or you don't want to stir up the water near your face.

 

[Blackwood]

I don't think anyone really swims backward for more than maybe 10' or so do they? In my own experience it's usually much less than that. Maybe a matter of moving a few feet further away from something or backing back out of a crevice or hole you were peering in. So whether it's a matter of using your hands or your fins, I don't really think efficiency plays much of a role. I can still see the desirability of knowing how to do a back kick though, either because your hands are occupied or you don't want to stir up the water near your face.

Maintaining a team formation relative of a fixed reference (e.g. anchor line) in current can result in constant kicking. Efficiency is huge.

 

[HenrikBP]

Even though the back kick is not efficient (and I don't think anyone would argue that it is)

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that Bob can back kick faster than I can flutter kick ...

Just a point of reference.

Henrik

 

[g1138]

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that Bob can back kick faster than I can flutter kick ...

Just a point of reference.

Henrik

I'm just imagining what conversation or bet had to occur prior, for you to figure that out?