Using a pony bottle?

[scblade27]

It seems like you are coming to the same conclusion I did about the backplate and wing. But, dont worry, if you do go to the tech stuff, you will soon have a garage full of equipment that makes the stuff you have now seem like it was nothing.

A stage is not a pony. A stage is used to extend bottom time and is used a lot for travel gas. Because of this, there may be different mixes of gas (higher oxygen content) than they can safely operate at depth. i.e. if you had a stage with 100% oxygen, your maximum operating depth (MOD) would be 20ft. Clearly marking this on the bottle makes sure the diver does not switch to that tank when they are 80' below the surface which would cause some major issues/death.

If you want more bottom time, get a bigger tank or a set of doubles to practice with. Dont make a pony another one of your gear regrets unless you are sure that is what you are looking for. They work great for some people, doubles work great for others. It really depends on the diving you are looking to do.

 

[jsado]

You're not looking for a stage or deco bottle. You're not looking for a bail-out bottle.

A stage bottle might be dropped on route during a cave dive to be picked up and used later. This is a technical dive tool requiring advanced gas planning and contingency skills.

A deco bottle is used during decompression stops, also a technical dive tool requiring gas planning and contingency skills.

A bail-out bottle is carried and used to exit a dive in the event of catastrophic gas failure. This is usually carried by recreational divers and rebreather divers.

A person could carry a "pony" bottle with them and breath it at the beginning of the dive to extend bottom time. However, IMHO, this is an improper solution to a non-problem. To increase bottom time, gain experience and increase breathing efficiency, and/or increase tank capacity. Most experienced divers will get to the point where they run out of NDL before they run out of gas on a nice big single tank.

Isn't it great the the solution to a problem is to dive more instead of tossing money at it?!

Sounds like a tough problem to deal with....BUT if it means finding a solution, I guess I'll just have to dive more!

 

[Gilldiver]

My own definitions:

Pony Bottle (Bail Out Bottle): A small tank with a separate regulator that is carried only for use in an emergency situation. This bottle will normally have air or a gas similar to the divers main gas ( back gas). The gas in a pony is never taken into account for dive planning. Sizes of pony tanks are usually less then or equal to 40 cubic feet.

Stage Bottle (DECO Bottle): A tank with a separate regulator that is carried as part of a divers planed dive. For DECO applications this tank will most likely have an oxygen percentage greater then the divers main supply. Sizes can run up to a 80 cubic foot bottle.

Bottom Stage: Similar to a Stage bottle with a separate regulator, however, it will have the same gas as the divers main supply (Back Gas). This type of stage bottle is used to extend a divers bottom time in situations or depths where the gas carried in the divers main tanks is not enough to accomplish the dive plan. Size of these bottles is normally 80 cubic feet.


For the original posters question, he is looking for a bottom stage. But, I don't think he can be ready for this in any way. The use of bottom stages is almost always done in conjunction with the use of double tanks on the diver back. Just from the way the question was asked, he is not ready to be running doubles, bottom stages, and the most likely required Deco stages.

Last, if anyone uses a back mounted stage/pony you have to make sure that you know which regulator you are using. I have seen a number of body recoveries where the diver had an empty pony and full back gas. They hit the water on the wrong regulator and when it went dry they panicked. Back in the day we used different style regulators for the pony then was used for the main tanks – Poseidon's on the mains and a Sherwood on the pony were common, you can tell the difference by feel.

 

[Web Monkey]

....as far as the MOD stuff goes. I don't get it. And by not getting it, I also realize that I probably don't need it, yet. Looks like I'll just buy a bigger tank and say forget the sling. This almost makes me wish I never bought the gear that I bought. Perhaps I would have been much better off with a backplate and wing as a beginner rig. It can expand with you as your diving capabilities do.....

You should dive with a tank that's large enough to supply all the air you need for your planned dive. If an 80 isn't enough, you could try a 95. You should also monitor your remaining air closely enough that you never run out of air. If you do run out of air, you should be close enough to your buddy to share his, and your buddy should also have reserved enough air to get both of you to the surface safely (the same goes for you).

That said, many people carry a pony bottle in case they screw up badly and run out of air and can't get to their buddy, or their buddy doesn't have enough air to share.

A stage bottle is physically almost exactly the same thing as a pony bottle, except it usually contains a different gas and is used on decompression stops (which you don't need to worry about right now).

Don't worry about the BP/W decision. It isn't a huge deal, since the "upgrade path" to doubles includes buying another tank (probably two), manifold, bands, another regulator and another wing. By the time you get done, you'll have easily spent way over $1000, so the cost of the actual plate isn't going to make a really significant difference.

Doubles are also way more than you need at this point, and would give you enough gas to get into quite a bit of trouble if you lost track of your time or depth. A normal-sized single tank is a little bit of a safety feature, since most new divers will run out of air before running out of no-decompression time if they stay within the recommended maximum depth.

Terry

 

[Blackwood]

In fact you can use a pony to extend your bottom time, but not in the way that you are picturing. Here's why:
[snip]

There is a certain amount of reserve gas that you should always maintain to get you and your buddy up

[snip]

The pony does end up extending your bottom time however, because now some of your rock-bottom reserve (typically half) will be in the pony bottle so you don't have to reserve as much air in your main tank.

Rock bottom must be sharable gas. Are you and your buddy otherwise capable of sharing air from your pony?

Generally speaking, unless your plan is to breathe the pony first (in which case it doesn't fit the working definition of 'pony'), it shouldn't count towards rock bottom.

 

[fl-diver]

Assuming you would plan on getting a 19 or 30 cuft pony, just get the next appropriate size tank and go diving. I always dove with AL80's and finally got a set of HP 100's now instead of worrying about length of bottom time I need to pay attention to stay out of deco.
Also as mentioned, your bottom time should increase considerably as you gain experience.
Oh yeah, I carry a pony (bailout) and only use it to make sure it is working and occasionally I will do a mock OOA and use it for ascent.

 

[mark99]

A stage bottle is physically almost exactly the same thing as a pony bottle

Now the confusion comes from a stage being incredibly similar to a pony bottle in set up.

 

[Blackwood]

A stage bottle is physically almost exactly the same thing as a pony bottle, except it usually contains a different gas and is used on decompression stops (which you don't need to worry about right now).

Stage bottles typically contain back gas. If they contain decompression gas, they're called deco bottles.

 

[AQUAMAN2]

I always dive with a pony whether solo (my normal style) or buddied up. The only exception is when I'm traveling internationally or long distances in the States. I never use the pony to extend my body time with one exception. If I'm back in the shallows (above 30 ft) and find something I just HAVE to film, I may use my pony to give me enough time to film it if my primary gas supply falls below 500 psi.

Hello to all ,

Yes I have done the same as Bill , Thank you everyone for all the different points of
interest . Yes it would make more sense to Dive more and work out more and so you
will make better use of your Breathing mix. Get more comfortable underwater and moving in it , not fighting the current or surge . Be a Smart Diver.

Also if you use all the air in your primary tank get to the surface out of breath
with or with out a pony ,it's not easy sometimes to manually fill up your B.C.D.
I suggest leave 500 psi in your primary .

My 2cents

 

[jsado]

I haven't taken the Advanced Open Water class yet. I'm guessing that's where I'd learn more about this kind of stuff? Thanks to everyone for the info..... Just before I posted this question, I was pricing out 19 cf Catalinas and regs, reading up on how to make the perfect sling, etc..... getting WAAAAY ahead of myself.