Victims' Names in Accidents forum a problem; "No Condolences" rule is Not Working

[DandyDon]

Many threads in A&I start out with an unknown conclusion (i.e. diver missing etc.). In that case obviously it would be in bad taste to start a "Passings" thread.You also cannot really start a Passing's thread until you know who passed.

Uh I said "death A&I thread" - you don't see condolences posted on missing or injured reports. Anyway, I agree with you; I think you took my statement incorrectly.

Again, I see a pattern which I can personally live with in the condolences. If they get out of control, a thread could always be moderated to move them. I do believe changing things here would likely not prove to be of any benefit at all IMO.

I see that they were moved in two new threads today. That's work for volunteer Mods, but if that may be the best that be done. Needs to be done tho, the earlier the better.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Uh I said "death A&I thread" - you don't see condolences posted on missing or injured reports. Anyway, I agree with you; I think you took my statement incorrectly.

I see that they were moved in two new threads today. That's work for volunteer Mods, but if that may be the best that be done. Needs to be done tho, the earlier the better.

You did specify Death...sorry for that. For wahtever reason, as soon as I see A&I my mind automatically excludes the death option. I am not sure why.

But my logic still applies to a death thread considering this thread was started to prevent the name of the victim from being stated. A Passing's thread would be quite ineffective without a name.

I am sure that now that you have raised the issue with the Satff it will get more attention considering they may not have seen the issue before.

 

[theduckguru]

Condolences on this board seem rather empty since the poster doesn't know the family and its not directly associated with the victims family.

 

[cruiser]

I understand where you are coming from but......................family is looking for closure, a reason why it happened, someone or something to blame, and eventually the truth if it can be found.

Most of the time, family members know everything may not be rosy, but they want to know something, good, bad or otherwise. Like I said before, someone making completely unfeeling and crass statements that do nothing, should be addressed.

I just think that we (SB forum members), unknowingly, don't give family members the credit they deserve. They already know a loved one has died (the worst outcome). Now they would like to find some answers if they are available. Not knowing is the worst thing after a major incident of any kind. If nothing else, the family will see that we are also trying to make sense of what has happened as it could have been "me". I truly believe this does more than we will ever know, for those that have lost someone, until the day that we are that family member.

I also would have thought our posts would be helpful for the family. But then you see a couple explosive reactions from family members on 2 recent incidents, where the sb'ers were just giving information, and the family took it to be accusatory and judgmental.

Sometimes the facts are hard to handle when the tragedy is so fresh.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

I also would have thought our posts would be helpful for the family. But then you see a couple explosive reactions from family members on 2 recent incidents, where the sb'ers were just giving information, and the family took it to be accusatory and judgmental.

Sometimes the facts are hard to handle when the tragedy is so fresh.

And that is a dynamic no one has any control over. I think you hit it on the head here, about being fresh. But, it is their choice to look or not and of course depending on the person, it can be too much for them. I am sure there have been families that looked at threads and were able to be more objective as well. Family and friends of the victims are as different as we all are and we can't do any one thing to change that. I just feel that a lot of good comes out of this and there seems to be more open-minded discussion here than on other boards. That speaks well of ths board.

 

[The Chairman]

But, it is their choice to look or not

Is it? Put yourself in their fins for but a moment and you can easily see how loyalty and the desire to protect what's left of them (their name and honor), could over ride any aversion to look. Everyone responds to tragedy in their own personal manner. What is right for you is not necessarily right for me! What you think is right for you now, may not be when you are in a moment of grief. This could change even from tragedy to tragedy for the same person.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Is it? Put yourself in their fins for but a moment and you can easily see how loyalty and the desire to protect what's left of them (their name and honor), could over ride any aversion to look. Everyone responds to tragedy in their own personal manner. What is right for you is not necessarily right for me! What you think is right for you now, may not be when you are in a moment of grief. This could change even from tragedy to tragedy for the same person.

As much as I hope to never have to read about a friend or family member passing away on an internet forum, I can only expect that I would not likely handle any criticism of them very well. I would likely be all over the "offending party" like a fat kid on a smartie. I know me and I am not sure that I could just say "Well, I guess I just won't look there".

I would expect this would be very difficult for many once they knew disagreeable things were being said. But I could be wrong.

 

[*dave*]

To that end, I would love to hear other ideas and how the rest of ScubaBoard feels about this issue. We have never operated in a social vacuum, and I don't mean to start that now. There are no wrong views here: only your views. The more input provided means a more educated decision for staff.

I'd say.... make the incident forum an opt in and leave the condolences forum open.

What information could a relative find on SB that would help them understand the situation better? I'd assume they would have better access to relevant details than the speculators do.

The down side would be that relatives have provided actual information on the incidents and they would likely cease if the threads were excluded from search engines.

On the positive, it would be far less likely for a loved one to stumble across a thread where speculation runs rampant and blame is the name of the game.

Personally, it tears me up when I see posts like this:

that diver that died was my man - his buddies were there - they all did everything they could - my man died doing something he dearly loved - it was just a horribly devastating accident - without going into detail - he did not breath the wrong gas - his buddies were all there - and they did everything they could - it was just not enough - devastating to all of us would be an understatement

stop speculating - that is not what happened

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Is it? Put yourself in their fins for but a moment and you can easily see how loyalty and the desire to protect what's left of them (their name and honor), could over ride any aversion to look. Everyone responds to tragedy in their own personal manner. What is right for you is not necessarily right for me! What you think is right for you now, may not be when you are in a moment of grief. This could change even from tragedy to tragedy for the same person.

You are absolutely correct. I think you misunderstood my point. That dynamic (defensive or receptive to info posted) is something we can't do anything about. What I was saying, or meant, is that we can't make everything perfect for the reader because we will never have the forsight to know who is reading. But, I feel it is handled well, and it already works which was the question of this topic to start with.

To put a bit more perspective, every few months I have to go to someone's house and tell them a loved on is not coming home to them. I have never been able to get used to doing this. Sometimes it is hard to keep my composure when they break down. I am not without feeling about this subject. I am trying to stay with the OP's topic when I respond. When I write they can read or not is meant to say if it is too hard to read then they can stop if they must, though they probably won't. They have to choose to delve into something that, even in their time of grief, they have to realize may present things hard to swallow. That is unfortunately more of the hard part of life that all of us will have to face from time to time. In the end, I hope that more families gain closure due to this. I understand some won't, but what we have, here, seems to be handled in a respectable manner. If I came across too "clinical" I appologize. That was not my intent.

 

[irishsquid]

Just a quick thought /statement/question: When I view the A&I, as stated before by some members, I'm wanting to learn and, evaluate my diving practices. After 2 pages of condolences, sympathies, etc. I tend to bail for a few days and may check back in later. (Yeah, I'm lazy and very in-attentive if side tracked) I have zero experience or knowledge about running a forum or the technical capabilities of the S/W or programming. Is it possible to look for keywords such as sympathy, condolences, sorry to hear, etc., just like what's done for obscenities? If so, why not just automatically snip/***** those sentences from the post? I can imagine there might be posts that have valid evaluations of the incident along with condolences, but after awhile, posters should learn that portion will be cut from the post and start posting just discussion about the A&I. My apologies if I'm way off on this.