Vortex Accident - T2T

[Cave Diver]

First off my thoughts go out to the members of the team searching for the missing diver. My understanding is that this may be the first time some of them have participated in something like this.

Secondly, how the HELL do they have a key to the gate and a diver missing for 3 days without someone noticing?

If this guy isn't a cave diver, it seems odd that he managed to sneak a key and get so far into Vortex that two SM search teams have been unable to find him (as of the last report I saw).

If he was a cave diver and checked the key out, how can they not know it's missing?

I'm hoping it turns out that this guy did a dive and then went off somewhere and forgot to turn the key in but that seems unlikely.

This whole thing seems rather odd.

 

[lamont]

Personally, I'm big on taking responsibility for yourself. It isn't up to the people maintaining the key and the gate to prevent people from killing themselves in a cave. And, actually, I think it this points out how policies like that may legally backfire -- it opens up the door to lawsuits against the gatekeepers if they 'allow' something like this to happen.

I vaguely hope that he got out of the cave and found out he'd left his headlights on and his battery ran down and he walked and hitch-hiked out of there and is going to show up today or tomorrow with a buddy of his and jumper cables... I don't see how he also leaves his bottle in the cave at the same time, though, so I expect the outcome is not good...

My thoughts are with the recovery team to stay safe, and not do anything stupid...

 

[Cave Diver]

Personally, I'm big on taking responsibility for yourself. It isn't up to the people maintaining the key and the gate to prevent people from killing themselves in a cave.

Oh, I totally agree with the personal responsibility. I just think there ought to be some better accounting for when someone is overdue.

 

[Cave Diver]

Information keeps coming in from other sources that there is going to be more to this story.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

John, you said this forum is restricted, correct? I have some "rest of the story" info that makes this a story that needs to be told. It is not for the public at this point but I hope it will be later.

 

[Cave Diver]

John, you said this forum is restricted, correct? I have some "rest of the story" info that makes this a story that needs to be told. It is not for the public at this point but I hope it will be later.

Correct. The forum is restricted to fellow tech divers holding full cave, wreck, trimix certs. There are approximately 250 that currently have access to read and post here. It was designed to let us post freely, along the lines of TDS, without heavy moderation.

There's a good chance you know most of the members and while the general board can't read or post in this forum, I'd still choose what info you want to post with a bit of care. However, rest assured family members browsing the board as guests can't see this forum.

Guys, please keep any of this info off the general section of the board until it becomes public knowledge.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

My "hersay" from a person that was there, but not diving, is basically as follows:

Diver took a rec s/m class from one of the recovery divers and had to be called down during that class. Would have been washed from a cave class.

Diver has been sneaking in at night.

Diver has been stealing gas from the fill station.

Diver replaced the bolts on the hinge side of the gate with his own lock or locks.

Diver had only yoke bottles.

Diver had a stage bottle with a reg (yoke)

Diver had another bottle with no reg, apparently to switch regs underwater.

There were signs of panic, at the end of the known passage where it is basically no mount, such as finger digs and scratches in the clay. It is very probable that he is there and will not be recovered until that section blows itself out more.

A really bad situation that put a bunch of good people in danger because of sheer stupidity. People who helped lost a weekend, placed themselves in harms way, and used their own resources, for the most part.

Vortex is not a long cave, but it is also not a simple cave either. I posted a description in another section because it is gated, and, because, people need to understand it is much different past the gate. Not a Wayne's World, or anything like that, but not a cave for novices either. The first half, up to the gate, is pretty forgiving. That is good cause people are gonna keep going there. It changes past the gate and if people go to the lengths this guy apparently went to, it probably won't be good for long. It seems this guy, probably, had several dives and got lucky, hence overconfident.

It may be cliche', but you don't know, what you don't know.

 

[TSandM]

You know, I took care of a patient last night who rolled a small car on a freeway offramp at an estimated speed of 120 mph.

No matter what you do, you can't extinguish bad judgment, and some people work very hard to manage to hurt themselves.

 

[bamamedic]

Spd 135, thanks for the info. If that turns out to be true, wow. Just wow.

I was planning on diving Vortex cave past the gate next weekend. Not anything stupid, just up to where the cave becomes low and horizontal (300 feet past the gate or so). That totally f*cked up my weekend (and a lot of other people's weekends, too, I imagine).

It doesn't take a genius to realize that it's probably a Bad Idea to plan and execute a dive like it appears the deceased did...I really do wonder what was going on inside his head at the time.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Spd 135, thanks for the info. If that turns out to be true, wow. Just wow.

I was planning on diving Vortex cave past the gate next weekend. Not anything stupid, just up to where the cave becomes low and horizontal (300 feet past the gate or so). That totally f*cked up my weekend (and a lot of other people's weekends, too, I imagine).

It doesn't take a genius to realize that it's probably a Bad Idea to plan and execute a dive like it appears the deceased did...I really do wonder what was going on inside his head at the time.

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that is true and more will come out. It is like a made up story for Scuba Diver magazine to use for shock factor, but it is not made up. Mat had posted that his logbook also reflected his activities.

To clarify the bolt / lock statement, there are two small chains on the left side of the gate that act as hinges. His lock was on one or both chains. The Vortex lock is on a chain used to secure the right side of the gate.

I was also told that one of his bottles used a wrench or something (I am thinking vice grips) for turning it on and off.

I have learned, over the years in law enforcement, that you can't stop anyone from doing something they have their mind set on doing. I do not think we should ever stop educating people and trying to passively stop people from stuff like this, but in the end they are gonna make the choice.