Warm Water BP/W Travel Recommendation

[tbone1004]

how does tank height effect first stage location? The tank is positioned based off of the valve knob, 0 other factors are relevant. Literally, no other factors matter in bottle placement. The bottle has to be high enough for you to reach that knob, and since most knobs are about the same height off of the top of the bottle, the cam band placement is identical in relation to the crown regardless of diving a LP121 which is 29" tall, or an S53 which is 19" tall. The only difference is how far forward you're pushed or how far back you lean when you rest the butt of the tank on a flat surface. I work with new students all the time fitting them in Halcyon Eclipse rigs, and the only problem resides with people with short torsos not being able to comfortably sit with an Al80 since they are too long for most divers.

 

[Kevrumbo]

how does tank height effect first stage location? The tank is positioned based off of the valve knob, 0 other factors are relevant. Literally, no other factors matter in bottle placement. The bottle has to be high enough for you to reach that knob, and since most knobs are about the same height off of the top of the bottle, the cam band placement is identical in relation to the crown regardless of diving a LP121 which is 29" tall, or an S53 which is 19" tall. The only difference is how far forward you're pushed or how far back you lean when you rest the butt of the tank on a flat surface. I work with new students all the time fitting them in Halcyon Eclipse rigs, and the only problem resides with people with short torsos not being able to comfortably sit with an Al80 since they are too long for most divers.

Because the STA "fixes' the height of the AL80 single cylinder at a non-adjustable level that it abuts the back of my head. Think about it: the more inboard standard cam band slots cut into the Backplate allow slightly more adjustment room to lower the attached placement of the AL80 tank so that the first stage is not hitting the back of my head, while still being able to reach and manipulate my cylinder valve. Single tank cylinder STA attachments do not work for me anymore. . .

I've been traveling abroad on tropical overseas tech wreck trips for over 8 years now, but for the past three years prefer using single tank sidemount for recreational dives, along with conventional doubles backmount (and doubles sidemount where indicated) for deep mixed gas staged decompression diving.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't get the suggestion for an AL plate for travel - the SS one is the same size, just as non-foldable/rollable, and I've never seen the ~4lb weight difference matter in a carryon bag.

That weight difference does matter a lot for my tropical rec diving, however. With a 3mm suit or more frequently trunks and a lavacore shirt, I can dive a 6lb SS plate, a minimal wing (18-27lbs), no STA or harness padding, and SS cambands...and be neutral or very slightly negative at a 10' stop with an AL80 on fumes. Extra weight not necessary. Adding a pony might require a couple lbs on a camband for the worst-case, highly floaty with an emergency deco obligation, scenario.

With such a light rig, I don't see the need for ditchable weight. Even if I drop down past 150' at the very start of the dive, disconnect my LPI, and flood my wing completely...swimming the rig up is not a problem. Would I stay on the surface for hours with that rig? No. Would it be so negative that getting there and staying there long enough to remove the rig and keep whatever I think would be helpful for survival would be a problem? No.

YMMV, but I love the simplicity of tropical diving with nothing attached to me but a tiny wing, a minimal harness, and a SS plate.

 

[BugHunterNY]

I don't get the suggestion for an AL plate for travel - the SS one is the same size, just as non-foldable/rollable, and I've never seen the ~4lb weight difference matter in a carryon bag.

That weight difference does matter a lot for my tropical rec diving, however. With a 3mm suit or more frequently trunks and a lavacore shirt, I can dive a 6lb SS plate, a minimal wing (18-27lbs), no STA or harness padding, and SS cambands...and be neutral or very slightly negative at a 10' stop with an AL80 on fumes. Extra weight not necessary. Adding a pony might require a couple lbs on a camband for the worst-case, highly floaty with an emergency deco obligation, scenario.

With such a light rig, I don't see the need for ditchable weight. Even if I drop down past 150' at the very start of the dive, disconnect my LPI, and flood my wing completely...swimming the rig up is not a problem. Would I stay on the surface for hours with that rig? No. Would it be so negative that getting there and staying there long enough to remove the rig and keep whatever I think would be helpful for survival would be a problem? No.

YMMV, but I love the simplicity of tropical diving with nothing attached to me but a tiny wing, a minimal harness, and a SS plate.

I agree, aluminum doesn't seem to make sense for OP. His point was that he doesn't want any weights - so the option of aluminum plate and a weight pocket is counter intuitive to his wishes.

If you think a traditional full SS plate is too heavy or you're concerned about travel - look at the Dive Rite XT Lite plate. This plate is awesome, weighs slightly less due to all the cutouts, but still slightly heavier than aluminum. For what you're looking for, this plate should be the front runner on your short list.




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[diver 85]

Is this the rig that DGX sells for $320? Non-branded Dive Rite EXP 25# wing, backplate, harness and cam bands?

I'm really close to hitting the "Buy" button on that rig, but I just keep drifting over to Oxycheq. I dove with a guy that had an Oxycheq wing and I was quite impressed with the quality. I have no experience with the Dive Rite travel wings.

..........Don't know anything about 'DGX'.....bought this about 4 years ago from Edd @ Cave Adventurers(in Florida).......Everything has DR on it---but do remember paying about 300? for it then......

 

[Rich Keller]

Anyway, I say all of this because I hope it gives some context to the type of diving that I do (warm water, single tank, no exposure suit), and what I learned makes me comfortable underwater.

Most back plates were made for doubles and must be adapted to use with a single tank so I would not recommend a traditional back plate for the type of diving you want to do. There are at least a couple of manufactures that make a single tank back plate but their names escape me at the moment. I use a commercial diving harness instead of a back plate, it is lighter for travel, made to use with one tank and very low profile. These were not made to be used with a wing but can be adapted for that purpose. For the type of diving you do a small wing would be more then enough and will pack flatter in your luggage then a jacket BCD. I use a Dive Rite Travel EXP wing with 25lbs of lift when I travel.



I never integrate my weights, I want it all on the belt so if it needs to be dropped in an emergency it all goes by releasing one buckle. This is a simple, fail proof method that will take the least amount of time & effort in an emergency and does not require that you rely on any other piece of equipment to work properly at that moment.

I have seen commercial diving harnesses on ebay for as little as $25 and I was able to get the wing, brand new, for under $100 on ebay as well. Most commercial diving harnesses are not adjustable so you must be sure of the size before you buy.

If you would prefer a new harness you can get them from American Diving Supply.

http://www.americandivingsupply.com/

 

[halocline]

Hello all,

Planning to purchase my first set of gear, and have been researching on SB for several weeks now on which BP/W set-up would be best for me. However, while I have a better idea now than I did two weeks ago, I still don't have near enough confidence to make a decision, so hoping to enlist some advice from SB regarding my particular BP/W needs.


PC

Based on what you wrote, I suspect a SS plate from either oxycheq or diverite, plus one of the small oxycheq or diverite travel EXP wings, plus a one piece webbing harness kit and a pair of XS scuba cam band pockets (for the waist belt) would be perfect for you. You can find a good deal on this stuff from caveadventurers.com, or some other places, but shop around and understand that caveadventurers might be able to give a lower price for some things than is advertised on their website. You should be able to get something like this for under $400, maybe approaching $300.

If you don't want the additional few lbs of a steel plate, you can approximate the weight distribution it offers by getting an AL plate and an additional pair of XS scuba camband pockets for the cambands. Those pockets are under $10 each. This would lighten the weight in your luggage by a few pounds, and might be useful if you ever dive with steel tanks in warm water. But with an AL tank in tropical locations, the SS plate often allows you to dive with zero additional weight, and that is terrific.

Another option for a very nice plate is the freedom plate, made by Eric on this forum. It might end up raising the cost a bit.

The Deep Sea supply stuff is fantastic, highly recommended, but it is a bit more expensive, and you said you wanted cheapest available that will do the job. IME that's likely to be a package from caveadventurers or HOG stuff.

 

[pconsidine007]

WOW, as usual SB proves to be an invaluable source of information for all things SCUBA. Thanks to all for the perspective and time.

I think I'm settling in on the Dive Rite BP/W Travel Wing. To be honest, I like the fact that they have video tutorials that explain how to set-up the wing. Also gave the guy a call the other day, and they were really helpful.

There's a few additional points of clarification that I'd like to ask from SB:

STA Inclusion & Implications - Despite differing opinions on the merits of diving with an STA, my personal opinion is that added stability and improved tank postiton make a compelling case for including in my rig set-up. As such, given that I dive with minimal exposure and am aiming to build a "balanced rig", can you pls confirm that the best DR set-up would be the "DR XT LITE SS" backplate with STA? From what I gathered from the thread, this combination is most likely to get me to a "balanced rig".

BP/W Extras - After speaking with the DR rep, I was feeling more inclined to pay the extra money for the DR Transplate set-up, rather than opting for the "basic" set-up (guess he did his job : ). Can anyone here speak to the added comfort that the "Transplate" kit provides compared to the basic set-up? Generally, I'd consider myself pretty rugged and not too bothered with feature comfort. That said, if paying an extra $100-$120 now to make me significantly more comfortable while diving for yrs to come is the reality of the situaion, than that's something I might consider.

Anyone have any thoughts on when all the extra padding / comforts come into play (long walks to distant dive sites come to mind - but that would be the rare occasion for me)? Is there a significant difference in comfort when you're in the water? Also, does the additional padding etc. compromise the aforementioned "balanced rig". Assuming that opting for the Transplate might require going with the Regular SS Plate + the STA, to offset the positive boyancy of the padding. Is this assumption correct?

Think that about covers it. Thanks again for all the contributions in this thread and across the board.

 

[Kevrumbo]

The only reason to get a STA is the quick change convenience between STA attached tanks, or between a single tank set-up to a conventional backmount doubles configuration. The single tank stability is better with a STA, but you will lose tank/BP attachment point adjustability and potentially have your tank valve/1st stage abutting the back of your head (this is especially true with the AL80 cylinder, the most common tank in use at all dive-ops worldwide). The best advice is to try your proposed BP/Wing Set-up --with all tank sizes-- before you buy. . .

 

[eelnoraa]

That's just not true. The STA doesn't place the tank too high, rather it needs to be high enough so that you can safely manipulate the valve, most people have their tanks so low you can't actually reach it in an emergency. There is a nice happy medium in height, and the STA sets the tank far enough off of your back that you can keep it higher without hitting your head. It also adds 2lbs to your rig which is nice.

It is true. For most STAs out there, the lowest tank height with STA will be higher than without STA. Not everyone needs the tank to be at the lowest possible spot, but for those who needs it, most STA will make it worse. The amount the STA put the tank further from your back make much less impact compare to how much it forces the tank to sit higher.

A while ago, I started a thread about this:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...ble-intentional-just-no-one-thinks-about.html

Only Deep Outdoor STA put cam band slot close to backplate's slot. All other STA I have seen so far, put the slot higher, range from 1" to >2".

Whether this is a problem depend a lot of the diver's physique. A small statue diver will be worse. I am one that affected badly. So after many tries on different method and different equipment, so my solution is 1) get small backplate. 2)choose a deeper band backplate. 3) drill holes in backplate to further drop the STA position. 4)choose a well design STA. I am using DOD at this moment