Wetsuit under dry suit?

[Ber Rabbit]

That hurt.:sulkoff:
Thanks Ber. :lilbunny:

You're welcome. I wouldn't worry too much about Jeff, he just likes to stir the pot. (that or he's off his meds )
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[pants!]

This is hilarious. The guy first states that it's the water that keeps you warm, not the neoprene. Then the story morphs and morphs til we get "Do you want that original layer of trapped water to stay in your wet suit or do you want new water to constantly flow in and out?"

Dude.

The water in the suit is BAD. Got it? BAD. But since drysuits are expensive, wetsuits are constructed to allow as little water movement as possible inside the suit. If we could keep it out we would (and hence we have neoprene drysuits, which are very warm by themselves).

The air in the neoprene is the insulation. The water inside the wetsuit STEALS your body heat.

 

[drew52]

This is hilarious. The guy first states that it's the water that keeps you warm, not the neoprene. Then the story morphs and morphs til we get "Do you want that original layer of trapped water to stay in your wet suit or do you want new water to constantly flow in and out?"

Dude.

The water in the suit is BAD. Got it? BAD. But since drysuits are expensive, wetsuits are constructed to allow as little water movement as possible inside the suit. If we could keep it out we would (and hence we have neoprene drysuits, which are very warm by themselves).

The air in the neoprene is the insulation. The water inside the wetsuit STEALS your body heat.

How does this go: whoop whoop! very entertaining The above comments got it right, but still very entertaining do go on i can't wait to read more

 

[scubadobadoo]

I get that the water is bad. I get that the air in the neoprene is the insulator. I have stated that many times. Still, the original layer of trapped water is playing a role in heat loss minimization otherwise we wouldn't want to KEEP IT IN THE WET SUIT. If it weren't important, then we would want a constant flow of new water!

SO, answer the question...

 

[pants!]

I get that the water is bad. I get that the air in the neoprene is the insulator. I have stated that many times. Still, the original layer of trapped water is playing a role in heat loss minimization otherwise we wouldn't want to KEEP IT IN THE WET SUIT. If it weren't important, then we would want a constant flow of new water!

SO, answer the question...

I'm not sure if you don't get it or you're trying to rationalize some incorrect opinions.

The water is BAD. The wetsuit does its best to keep water movement to a minimum, because new cold water is way worse than the already bad warm-ish water.

I guess that saying the warm-ish water already in the suit is "playing a role" in keeping out the colder water, but that's a really pointless way of looking at it that makes no sense.

To answer "your question" as you keep insisting, obviously we want the water already in the suit to stay there. The water inside the suit doesn't play a role in anything but sapping away your heat energy. Your original post stated quite clearly:

The neoprene itself doesn't keep you warm. It's the water that is trapped between your body and the neoprene that is heated by YOU that keeps you from freezing to death

This is, in fact, totally incorrect. The neoprene is what keeps you warm and the water trapped between your body and the neoprene does NOT keep you from freezing to death. The neoprene is keeping that water warm just as it is keeping your body warm.

 

[scubadobadoo]

I guess that saying the warm-ish water already in the suit is "playing a role" in keeping out the colder water, but that's a really pointless way of looking at it that makes no sense.

I agree, it isn't the best way to look at it and have stated that many times. It's a small point but it is still valid and it's the only point that I have been trying to make after my silly posts (#'s 1, 2, and 3). Some posters were saying that it plays "no" role and "isn't" part of the equation at all and that simply isn't true. It is playing a role and even the scubadiving.com link states that what I have been saying (for the past 50 posts) is partly true.

"There's a kernel of truth in this whopper, though." That's the only point that I have been arguing. A kernel. The water layer does play a role.

I haven't been morphing. In post #21 I clearly stated that what I originally wrote was wrong and have freely admitted this SEVERAL times. That's not morphing, that's changing my position and admiting I was "wrong" about what I wrote even though many have said that didn't happen. SINCE THEN, I have been arguing this small kernel correctly but all anyone can do is continue to quote my first few posts and miss my point.

If anyone answers my qestion they will be able to follow my point.

"There's a kernel of truth in this whopper, though. Once water does get inside and soaks up some of your heat, you at least want to keep it from leaving quickly, so "trapping" is a good thing."

Clearly the warmer water layer, dispite the fact that it is robbing the heat, is NOW playing a role because it is trapped and that is "GOOD." I don't entirely think it's a pointless way to look at it however because it is called a WET suit and one can safely assume that water will enter it and once it does it is playing a role if we want to keep it there, especially if it is warmer than the water outside the wet suit.

Thanks for conceding my small and pointless kernel. For the record, I in no way meant that to be a jab of any kind. More teasing myself actually. :05:

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Oh for the sake of all that is sensible in the world, please stop! Your "argument" is daft and not an argument at all! You sound like a politician looking for loopholes and technicalities to try to prove why you weren't wrong in the first place. You were wrong, and you continue to be wrong. The water PLAYS NO ROLE IN KEEPING YOU WARMER. It's really as simple as that.

The fact that the water is in the suit doesn't mean it is part of what keeps you warmer. There are lots of things inside the suit, and their presence there does not mean they are part of the "system". You're trying to overcomplicate an absolutely simple concept to save face.

To answer your question - no, I wouldn't want the colder water entering the suit. I also wouldn't want hydrochloric acid entering the suit. By your logic, that means that the lack of hydrochloric acid in my suit is a part of what keeps me warm. It's ridiculous. It does not logically follow. Anyone can see that.

Just stop...you're clinging to something that isn't there, and you're doing it because you entered this conversation arguing a case that is DEFINITELY not true. Just let it go. You were wrong.

 

[scubadobadoo]

To answer your question - no, I wouldn't want the colder water entering the suit. I also wouldn't want hydrochloric acid entering the suit. By your logic, that means that the lack of hydrochloric acid in my suit is a part of what keeps me warm.

It's not called a hydrochloric acid suit. It's called a wet suit. That's your logic, not mine.

So why do you want that original trapped layer of water to stay trapped? Because it's important. It helps keep you warmer. That's simple logic. If the water wasn't trapped, you would get colder, FASTER. Concede that point hum.

How could I try to be saving face when I already CLEARLY stated that I was wrong in my original posts, in post #21. For crying out loud. Move on!

I am ONLY arguing that the original trapped layer of water does play a role assuming it stays put. "Trapping is Good," because the trapped layer of water is IMPORTANT. It HELPS. Why can't you concede that? It's a simple truth. It AIDS. It does play a role!!!! How can you deny that? Even YOU want that warmer layer in YOUR suit so it is important. Why do you want that original water layer in your suit instead of water flowing constantly?

BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT. IT ROBS LESS HEAT THAN THE WATER THAT WOULD ENTER THE SUIT AND TAKE ITS PLACE. IT HELPS. CONCEDE.

 

[JeffG]

CONCEDE.

Why is winning this debate so important to you?

 

[scubadobadoo]

Why is winning this debate so important to you?

Why is proving that I am wrong so important to you? You keep coming back too. :05: I'm having fun. Sorry if you are frustrated.

Maybe because you have now spent over 60 posts trying to prove my point wrong. I'm not (for the 30th time) trying to prove your points wrong. I agree with them. They make perfect sense. However, how can you deny that the original water layer isn't a factor?

Why do you want that original water layer in your suit instead of water flowing constantly?

BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT. IT ROBS LESS HEAT THAN THE WATER THAT WOULD ENTER THE SUIT AND TAKE ITS PLACE. IT HELPS. :10: It doesn't keep you warmer, but it does keep you warmer than the water that would enter if a constant flow existed. This is a process that can't be stopped without a dry suit. The water will enter and when it does, you want to KEEP IT THERE!

I admitted that I was wrong in post #21. Why can't you admit that my above point is true?